Phase I /1902 C&S Coals

[Mike Trent]

Thanks, Jim. #4319 is just like #4350. I'll do that one with the help of your picture. Yesterday I found pictures that seem to show cars that had some of the upgrades but no lower irons on the ends. I think there was always a dash of "anything goes" on some of this stuff. Especially out of a large series of cars that received what appears to have been little controlled maintenance of the aging 1902 cars. Different story with the ones that were upgraded and decorated in Button Herald livery. But there were exceptions then too. One of the pics I found had button heralds and no lower end irons.

Thanks again for the heads up!

[Keith Hayes]

'B' end, please. But I will settle for an 'A.'

[Jim Courtney]

How about a 20s or 30s image of a coal with the 'Z' coupler lift iron?

Sorry Keith, no good photo of a 1902 coal car with the "Z" lift iron, but here is a kissin' cousin, a 1902 flat car with such hardware:



Waterton, c1912-13, in Grandt's Narrow Gauge Pictorial VIII (Looks like someone misplaced an air hose wrench!)


Since the 1902 flats were built in the same batch as the 1902 coal cars, the Z lift bar was likely original equipment on all the 1902 coal cars as well. Note, this is a pre-USSA hardware photo, the Z's may have been changed out later in the 'teens.

But as Mike noted above, the C&Sng was the type of road where "anything goes", "mix and match" and YMMV. So . . . put some Z lift bars on one of your 1930's coal cars (just something overlooked by the car shop back in 1916, when trying to get the car fleet to conform to the new standards).

And BTW, have you purchases any of Mike's Shapeways original tapered 1902 coal stakes?? Photos from the 30's and 40's show some cars with a mixture of both old tapered stakes and new straight stakes. A few had mostly tapered stakes.

And in Derrell Poole's plans for the Phase 0, 1898 four board coal cars, Derrell noted that in the 1920's, some of the cars had their four individual corner irons replaced by a single one piece corner iron, like on the later coal cars -- sometimes only one or two corners on a given car so replaced.

As my old art teacher said, "Uniformity is the enemy of realism." (or something like that . . .)

[Mike Trent]

Those things are a bit of a mystery to me. There are pictures of several type 3 boxcars and stock cars with those z cut bars and those were built around 1910. I've always wondered if they experimented with the design and replaced them on random cars that went through the shop for a time. They don't seem to be unique or common to any particular car or time.

[Chris Walker]

Don't forget to loop out and around the Brakestaff on the B-end, the cut rod doesn't go behind the staff on Ph-1 Coalcars.  

Harry Brunk had a photo essay on the 4319 details in the early NG&SL Gazette issues of his Up Clear Creek on the Narrow Gauge saga.  Good PH-1 photos are in the back of The Mineral Belt Vol-1.

[Keith Hayes]

I still have 4-5 more PI cars to build. The project has gotten sidelined by a lack of scale 2x10 styrene I thought I would try a different technique on this car and paint the sides and ends first, then glue the works up. The idea was to provide continuity of weathering on the side boards.

Having gotten the first box together, I think I will continue to paint the works once it is complete. There are just too many parts that get glued up: case in point, the corner irons.

Anyway, once I get the safety appliances on, along with a few more bits, it is another car for the line.

[Pat Student]

Nice work.

Seeing the worn top edges of the sides reminds me the the D&RG 9200's and 9300's had 3/16" x 3" plates lag screwed to the edge to prevent wear.  Unaware if the 9351 and later govs had this feature.  Certainly were not applied the the re-built cars in the 20's

[Paul R.]

I can see I will have to lift my game when I do some. Excellent work. Paul R.

[Chris Walker]

I remember going through this when I built my Coalcar, comparing many photos of C&S vs D&RGW .  There was a renowned late view of #4360 piled high with Coal that showed pristine top sideboards.

I would urge caution on having too many beat up Coals since the majority of close views show otherwise.  Lest you end up with the Malcom Furlow look.

The D&RGW did use a rolling dumper to unload, that process combined with the limestone rock did damage their gons upper boards way more than the shovels used on the C&S.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42737/rv/singleitem/rec/33
Random picture from 100's

[Mike Trent]

Chris, had to laugh at your "Malcom Furlow" reference. I used to use that all the time way back when. Colorado through a "Texan's" eyes. That was in the days before I accepted that Texas at one time had the entire Eastern Slope as part of the old Republic. Which makes me, in a way, a native of the old republic myself.

I was wrangling with myself until the 11th hour yesterday about whether to carve up the top board on Coal #4299, which I had decided to finish as an "unpainted since 1902" refugee. In the end, I decided not to carve them up, as it seemed likely that the majority of them had not looked like that. And, if I didn't like the way it turned out I could still do whatever I wanted with it.

But I do like it.  So, meet Coal #4299, not one your Mom would let into the house. Here it is, Jim, I took the "Courtney Challenge". Thanks.

   

[Mike Trent]

On the other hand, following is a photo of 1898 Coal #4117, still looking good as one of the last cars painted with block lettering. Coupled in today's Westbound train behind newly repainted boxcar #8125, which is on it's way to resume it's West End career.

Again, sensational kudos to Bob Stears' work producing the resin bodys of these excellent kits.

Two more have been moved into the paint shop.

 

[Bill Uffelman]

Very nice work!

Bill Uffelman 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Mike Trent [via C&Sng Discussion Forum]

<[hidden email]> wrote:

On the other hand, following is a photo of 1898 Coal #4117, still looking good as one of the last cars painted with block lettering. Coupled in today's Westbound train behind newly repainted boxcar #8125, which is on it's way to resume it's West End career.

Again, sensational kudos to Bob Stears' work producing the resin bodys of these excellent kits.

Two more have been moved into the paint shop.

 

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[Todd A Ferguson]

This is my understanding too.  The rotary dumper and reduced ongoing maintenance of equipment on the D&GRW in the last couple decades were the primary factors in the chewed up top boards.

I don’t think anyone would want to spend their day shoveling from car to car or car to elsewhere and banging their shovel into the sturdy upper boards.

Best,

Todd Ferguson

On Jul 16, 2018, at 11:25 PM, Chris Walker [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I remember going through this when I built my Coalcar, comparing many photos of C&S vs D&RGW .  There was a renowned late view of #4360 piled high with Coal that showed pristine top sideboards.

I would urge caution on having too many beat up Coals since the majority of close views show otherwise.  Lest you end up with the Malcom Furlow look.

The D&RGW did use a rolling dumper to unload, that process combined with the limestone rock did damage their gons upper boards way more than the shovels used on the C&S.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42737/rv/singleitem/rec/33
Random picture from 100's

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NAML

[Keith Hayes]

Three more P1 coals to add to the fleet.

[Chris Walker]

Thanks to Keith for the reminder,  

A little late... Just where the intervening year went I don't know.

after my post above I shot the upper boards of my Highsider to show the effect of 8 years of deflecting blows from errant objects and my shovel.  Compared with the endgates (which are replaced regularly) the tops are rounded and marked by the upside down edges of the square-mouth shovel.

[Jim Courtney]

Great looking coal cars, Keith!

How about a photo of boxcar 7742 in the background -- that would be an old St Charles boxcar (ex-UPD&G) if memory serves.
Tell us how you built it . . .

[Keith Hayes]

I just have to add one last decal.

[Jeff Young]

Very nice!

[John Greenly]

Keith,

beautiful coal cars!!  Your man there looks proud, and well he should be!

John

[Lee Gustafson]

Keith,

Nice work on your phase 1 coal cars. Thanks for sharing your work and pictures with us.

Lee Gustafson