TOC (ca. 1900) locomotive colors

[Todd Hackett]

I've been catching up on scanning photos, and thought I'd share this one of C&S #71 in Pitkin. Looking at the shades, it appears that the cab, tender, and dome rings are very dark while the dome tops and bottoms, boiler jacket, drivers, pilot, and cab doors and windows are a lighter color. The headlight seems to be somewhere in between. Jeff Ramsey's post in the What's on your workbench thread mentions olive green on #9's dome tops and boiler jacket, which is believable for the lighter shade on #71 in this photo. The boiler jacket doesn't have the sheen associated with planished or russian iron, although the dome rings may be. The lettering is also interesting in that it's too dark to be white and probably too dark for silver, so I assume it's gold leaf or gold paint, except for the headlight number boards where the numbers appear to be white - probably milk glass.

[Rick Steele]

Hi Todd,

I found Gold Paint when I stripped 71 back in 1970. Nothing was left on the tender, but after so many tender rebuilds between that photo and being put on display, I really didn't expect it. I found the gold remnants on the cab panel and on the number plate. No leaf, just paint.

Rick

[Jim Courtney]

Here is Jeff's post describing the green paint on C&S #9 dome tops:

Paint chips I sampled from with a razor blade from the top of 9's steam done and boiler jacket in 2004 relvealed 5 layers of "paint". Unfortunately I have not found the tiny Ziploc bag of this sample ( in my storage I hope) to image a proof of the first layer was green, like faded light olive but not drab green, although perhaps with serious oxidation. Second was drop black as described a drop of blue in black. Sort of gray-blue- black. But not lamp black. Third layer; black- black. Fourth layer; black-black. Fifth layer; Chinese Red. I fear in 2005 Marlin Ullrich under contract with the Colorado historical society sand-blasted this evidence into eturnity for whatever that was worth. Anyhow I believe that after the rebuildings of the  at the early days of the C&S, the sheet steel boilers jackets/ tops and bottoms of the domes  were finished olive green.


I think Todd is correct about the colors and lettering on C&S 71 at Pitkin c.1903. The early photo of number 9 in Grandt's Pictorial seems to suggest the same:




It is my interpretation that the smoke box and stacks are "graphite and oil" -- dark when first applied, becoming a lighter, silvery color with time.

I am suspecting that the paint scheme preceded the "Columbine" lettering phase, consider C&S 68 and 66 c.1899-1900:





Both seem to have a light boiler jacket and domes, with the center bands of the domes a darker color (black ?), most noticeable on C&S 66. I would imagine that the smoke box and straight portion of the McConnell stack to be graphite and oil, while the upper "pancake" diamond portion of the stack is black.

It may be that the paint scheme dated back to the Trumbull receivership:




Back in DL&G days, number 272 (later C&S 69) looks very much like Todd's photo of C&S 71, although it is impossible to say with black and white photos. Did UP painting specs from the 1890's ever specify green boiler jackets??

I hope Jeff Ramsey can find that little zip lock bag with the paint chips from number 9, so he can post some photos of the green in question. His description of an oxidized faded light olive reminds me, in my minds eye, of the grey-green color that the Texas & Pacific used, to paint the boiler jackets of the big 2-10-4 locomotives. How would this "green" look on the boiler jacket and domes of an Sn3 model of C&S 10 or 66 or 68 at the turn of the century??

[Jeff Young]

Hi Jim,

Good to hear from you!  How are things up there in the eye of the storm?

Cheers,
Jeff (we're brewing our own storm over here....)

[Jim Courtney]

Hey Jeff,

As a matter of fact, I am now retired-retired. My North Seattle hospital closed our entire maternity service (L&D, Postpartum, OB-Gyn ORs and our NICU) to reconfigure two complete hospital floors for the expected Corona virus surge, guestimated to be in 10-14 days.

As I now have no place to work, I moved my retirement date from May 1st to March 26th. My wife and I are going to hunker down on our little five-acre place in the country in Kitsap County for the next 4 weeks or so. Nothing much to do, can't eat out, see a movie, go to the mall, just go out once every few days to look for toilet paper.

Guess I'll just have to make the best of it and begin planing my Sn3 retirement layout.  I'm thinking Breckenridge and the Gold Pan shops as a subject.

[Jeff Young]

Awesome news!

I'll have to perfect my scanning technique of that Gold Pan Shops photo I have....

[South Park]

  If I may derail this thread just a bit ......

  The photo of 68 and 66 "at Parlins" ....  is it just odd old-time camera optics
zooming the far valley wall up close ?  Or is this farther up Tomichi Creek,
where the valley narrows ?  It seems the grade is fairly high up the hill from
the valley floor too (from how I remember "Parlins" (out by US 50)).  Am I
all messed up ?

[Chris Walker]

Here you go Sth Park...

[Jim Courtney]

And here is the original, uncropped photo for comparison (one of my favorites!):




The ridge and tree line above number 68's tender match pretty well, despite 120 years.

[South Park]

  That photo has always been special to me too.

In 1977, I first saw that photo and this insulator (far left).  It was dug about
the location of where this pole stood.  40 years later it was given to me.  The
other similar one was also found nearby.  The grey one came off the Leadville
freight house, the more green one was found near Quartz.  All original construction
DSP&P

[Bill Uffelman]

While the circumstances are unfortunate, congratulations on your retirement - it is highly underrated! Enjoy your new freedom.

Bill Uffelman

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:03 PM, Jim Courtney [via C&Sng Discussion Forum]

<[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey Jeff,

As a matter of fact, I am now retired-retired. My North Seattle hospital closed our entire maternity service (L&D, Postpartum, OB-Gyn ORs and our NICU) to reconfigure two complete hospital floors for the expected Corona virus surge, guestimated to be in 10-14 days.

As I now have no place to work, I moved my retirement date from May 1st to March 26th. My wife and I are going to hunker down on our little five-acre place in the country in Kitsap County for the next 4 weeks or so. Nothing much to do, can't eat out, see a movie, go to the mall, just go out once every few days to look for toilet paper.

Guess I'll just have to make the best of it and begin planing my Sn3 retirement layout.  I'm thinking Breckenridge and the Gold Pan shops as a subject.

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[Jim Courtney]

Thanks Bill!

[Michael York]

Don't forget Aluminum!  

I have a hunch that most of the "white" lettering and striping on locomotives was actually aluminum.  This is true in the Baldwin order books, and I know it was true with some railroads in the 1950s.