Sunset On3 C&S #74

[John McCutcheon]

What parts are need to upgrade a Sunset On3 C&S/RGS #74 to a more realistic C&S model and how over sized is the tender width.

John McCutcheon

[Mike Trent]

Hi John, sorry it took so long to come across your question. I'll give this some thought and make up a list of parts and post some photos.

I assume your goal is to rebuild a #74?

Bottom line is that probably most of the castings will need to be replaced, and many other parts will need to be modified or fabricated. The correct tender width is right about 8'.

Mike

[John McCutcheon]

 Mike

Thank you, look forward to your post when you have the time and part numbers for this project

John

[Mike Trent]

Before I post some information about the Sunset model, I'll post three pictures that were easy to get out of my phone and into my computer so I can send them.



First, a picture of the engineer's side showing some tender detail, and rear of the cab detail, etc...



This photo shows #74 and #76 with an Eastbound freight meeting Train No 70 at Dickey. In this picture you can see both differences and similarities. Both have the smaller Brooks style domes, #76 still resembles the old Brooks lines as built, with the straight running boards and piston valves. You can see differences in both tenders, and both have been narrowed from the Sunset version.



This photo shows #74 with plow. Note the 11" air pump, the full sized Pyle National headlight with DSP&P brackets, narrowed running boards, etc....

Next, I will comment on the Sunset model as imported.  

[Mike Trent]

When I decided to jump into On3 in January of 1980, I wanted to have one, just one, On3 locomotive, and since I was working with other members of the Boulder Model RR Club on a cosmetic stabilization of #74 in Boulder's Central Park, that engine seemed perfect.

The only problem was that the model didn't really look much like #74. With the encouragement of Larry Edwards and several of my barnyard friends, I bought one of those things and wondered how much bloodletting would have to be done before I would look at my #74 and actually see #74. The bloodletting was considerable and, as it has turned out, ongoing, but we'll worth the effort.

To make a long story short, everyone has always complained about the undersized headlight, the way too wide running boards and cab, and tender. The bent wire  piping looks poor, and on and on...

The biggest problems with the model derive from the fact that they used the cartoonlike drawing from the B4F folio sheet instead of actually measuring or spending any time researching the engine. But having said that, some elements of the model are really quite nice. Such as the pilot, frame, and running gear.

Todd Hackett has concluded the boiler is slightly over sized, which is probably why the cab sides, which should be 6x6, are actually 6x6'6", hardly noticeable at all, once other issues are addressed.

The folio sheet drawing upon which many details were based, is unfortunately not #74, but #75. The model included the non Brooks tall sand dome, the 4 pane windows, and the unique 12" high coal bunker sides. Somebody at Sunset realized the #74 does not have 12" bunker sides, and replaced them with 24", but they missed the fact that #75's bunker is a foot longer. Both #74 And #76 have a 5' deck behind the bunker, #75 had a 4' deck. The C&S cut down #75's bunker because it was thought the tender was top heavy, and caused #75 to roll over into the Platte River in 1922, which also crushed it's Brooks sand dome.

The model comes with a 9 1/2" air pump, which RGS guys put on there because they needed #74's 11" pump to replace #42's pump when it went bad during scrapping operations.

So there are a lot of problems of multiple kinds that affect the appearance of the Sunset #74, and there will have to be some compromises that will have to be made along the way, but all of the problems can be pretty much overcome.

I went after my #74 to remove everything I thought I needed to remove the same month I bought it in January of 1980. I finished it the first time about 5 months later, about the same time I acquired my second C&S locomotive, and the only other that had ever been produced in On3, the PFM Brooks Mogul, which dated back to the early 60's.

I'll work on a parts list shortly. You'll need a lot of stuff, but with the internet and the ability to order parts from PSC, it's a whole lot easier than it used to be.

[Mike Trent]

Two other things I should point out, surprisingly, the cab turns out to be very close in width to the prototype, as I stated above there were complaints that the cab is too wide, but it actually isn't. It sits 6" too high because the boiler is 6" high, but it isn't too wide. It would not look right lowered, because it actually does sit where it should above the boiler and would not look right lowered. Compromise #1.

Secondly, the diameter of the smokebox is spot on. So is the length of the smokebox.

The bones are there, they just need to be redressed.

This is why I posted the photos first.

[Jeff Young]

Wow, fantastic result Mike!  I love the detail available in On3, but just don't have the room for it.

Cheers,
Jeff.

[John McCutcheon]

Mike

Thanks for pointing out the differences in the model and the prototype. The photos are a great aid in seeing how the engine should look As far as the tender goes you just remove a scale 8' in width to get the right proportions if I am correct. The Brook's domes are they available or were they fabricated. Thanks for the photos and your response.

John

[Mike Trent]

Three photos of the rebuild of my 2nd #75 in 2013. The original was sent to Switzerland back in '94, when it and #76 were sold on consignment. Among parts that were reused were the stack, steam dome (sand dome too on #75) and the air tanks under the running boards. I bought the original #76 from the same guy in Missouri who had bought my old #537. I also have photos of the tender rebuild.


This photo shows #75's boiler before parts to be replaced were removed:




The following photo shows #75's (2nd, built in 2013) boiler and cab after all parts that needed to be replaced were removed. The frame and tender have already been pretty much completed.



Just for comparison, here is #75 nearing completion:

[Keith Stamper]

Hello Mike,
I recently purchased an On3 RGS 74 and as my main interest is C&S I was considering a build. I read your messages regarding rebuilding the model and am wondering if you do have a list of parts necessary to complete the changes? I would cut the centre out o the tender tank to remove the 8" that makes the tank too wide.
My model is a typical RGS rendition and basically "out of the box" as built by Samhongsa.

My home layout is primarily C&S and I run some RGS equipment in a "what if" scenario where the C&S and RGS could interchange cars.
If I can obtain the necessary parts required, I may tackle a complete rebuild.

Thanks much.
Regards,
Keith Stamper
Port Colborne
ON Canada