Non-Revenue Service Cars

[Todd A Ferguson]

I am thinking that Dr. Sloan may have had some information on the WU cars in his D&RGW freight cares tome.  But I’m not near home and my copy...

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On Aug 29, 2019, at 12:24 PM, Pat Student [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Trying again to post a description of the train.  Looked good before posting previous message.

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NAML

[Robert McFarland]

Would the "abandoned" ROW between Garos and Newitt have been used by running "extra" trains for hauling supplies and getting men to the job?The C&S occasionally ran stock trains as far as Cohen Spur during this time period.

[South Park]

  Well, were I in charge of doing work like that, having rail access would not
be something I would avoid, if the alternative was horses and wagons.

[Chris Walker]

Jim Courtney wrote

Now that is a great photo -- I've never seen that version of "The Colorado Road" lettering scheme before, with the abbreviated "Colo. & Sou."

Where do you find these photos, Chris??

<quote author="Jim Courtney">


Along this line of thought, awhile ago I came across this picture but couldn't remember where it fit in, until I re-found this Post, Jim.
https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/10418/rec/59
DPL X-12207

[Keith Hayes]

Sorry it has been a while,  folks. Software issues.

I got over the hump and made some windows and doors to turn my Leadville Designs 27' Boxcars into habitable environments for the water service crew.


Stay tuned!

[Jim Courtney]

They look neat, Keith!

Are the prints available for sale in your Shapeways shop?

BTW, one of Leadville's horses escaped the stables and is wandering about . . .

[Keith Hayes]

Not available yet, Jim.

I measured the kit and consulted the folios and as best I can figure the windows are about 2'-0" square. In the photos, some of the windows don't appear square to my eye: some have a taller, skinnier look. I started with a square window and made a copy that was an inch or two skinnier, and another copy that is an inch or two shorter. The window has to fit between the vertical extending upward from the bolster and the diagonal immediately inward. Knowing no better, I assume a carpenter installed a head and a sill between the vertical and diagonal, with a jamb about 24" inward from the vertical. The siding was cut and the new window(s) inserted. I wonder if the frame was used as a fence for the saw to cut the siding? It can be tough to frame to a diagonal, the part can shift in your helpers hand as you set the nail home. The result is easily a window out of square.

The door is based on one shown in one of the folios with 2 panes by 2 panes and 2 panels below. There is a rail (I think the rails are horizontal in a door) between the window and panels, and another rail below, which might have a bit of sheet metal over it--I raised it anyway. One might think that the doors were recycled from a home, but they could easily have been built to suit. If I had more time, I might have tried making one a bit more fancy with an arched window as Grandt offers in one of their HO parts.

On another part--for the Kokomo Depot--I stacked the parts and ended up with a "shadow" cast on the parts below. I have not cut these apart yet to see if something similar happened. Once I get the two cars built, I will assess if I want to make the part public. Honestly, I wondering if I should take the Shapeways parts down? They are forever changing things, introducing new materials and changing pricing.

Perhaps the horse is running about the bench because it awaits a session with a Smith to get reshod?

[Keith Hayes]

First two windows fitted.

The location is dictated by the interior framing.  Now to figure out the door. I am guessing that the sliding door was removed and th siding is now flush with the car sides.

[Jim Courtney]

Looks good, Keith!

When you get to building up the frame, don't forget that the current consensus is that the 27 foot boxcars did not have truss rods . . .

[Keith Hayes]

Remind me where to find this string, Jim.

Now that the sides are prepped, I was just about to install needle beams and queen posts.

[Doug Heitkamp]

Right here Keith....

Case-of-the-Missing-Truss-Rods-Revisited

[Keith Hayes]

I had not specifically made end doors for this project.

I opened up the interior sheathing between the two vertical posts above the center beams. Then I used some of the material removed from the side doors as the basis for the new door. Rails are 1x4 and stiles are 1x8. the jamb trim is 1x4 with a threshold on the front side of the siding being a 1x4 cut in half lengthwise.

So far, so good.

I guess my needle beams will lack truss rods per the discussion Doug pointed out above. I  may include some tie rods along the outside face of the center sills and terminating on either side of the buffer plates as Jim suggests.

[Keith Hayes]

More progress:

I really appreciate the fidelity Bill includes in these kits. I feel like I am constructing the real thing,  albeit not in the same order. In fact, I think the directions suggest building th roof framing on the roof and then installing this sub assembly to the body. I prefer to install the carlines to the body first.

It is starting to look like a real water service car. This one will be 068. ( Bill Meredith,  I don't suppose I can impose upon you to make some smaller block lettering decals for the MOW cars in S scale??)

[Jim Courtney]

Looking good, Keith! I have one of these kits under construction as a 1901 boxcar.


Bill Meredith,  I don't suppose I can impose upon you to make some smaller block lettering decals for the MOW cars in S scale??

Order an HO scale decal set from The Leadville Shops, it has a variety of smaller block lettering and subscript, that look like they could be used on outfit cars and cabooses: Item number "CWDHO-32". The normal boxcar block monogram in HO scale, when applied to a Sn3 car would look about right. I used one on this car body:

[Chris Walker]

Keith Hayes wrote

I guess my needle beams will lack truss rods per the discussion Doug pointed out above. I  may include some tie rods along the outside face of the center sills and terminating on either side of the buffer plates as Jim suggests.

I just gotta ask....  

Why are Needle Beams fitted if the Tension Rods don't go through them(thus forming a shallow truss)?  There appears to be no need for them if they aren't housing rods; spacer blocks(crosswise) would be used between the Stringers, for horizontal tension rods.

[Jim Courtney]

Hey Chris,

Needle beams without truss rods is just one of the many mysteries of the C&S narrow gauge.

As we discussed in the other thread, none of the 27 foot house cars had truss rods, all had "needle" beams. This feature was consistent between the St Charles built 27 foot Tiffany reefers and all the UP built 27 foot boxcars, as built for the DSP&P, Utah Northern and Kansas Central.

. . . spacer blocks(crosswise) would be used between the Stringers, for horizontal tension rods.

None of the published plans or existing car bodies were known to have spacer blocks to keep the longitudinal stringers / sills separated. The stringers were attached and separated at the end beams; the bolsters were trussed plate bolsters that kept the stringers separated at those two points. But no one has ever demonstrated spacer blocks at the center of the car. On the later 30' cars, there were "brake beam hanger blocks", about 3 feet inward from the center of the bolster, that separated the center and intermediate sills. The only explanation that I can come up with for the "needle beams" is that they served that function at the center of the car, on either side of the side doors. They were generally 8 inches tall, notched about 2 inches to fit snugly between the side and center sills, with a 6" reveal when viewed from the side. Both beams were bolted to each of the 6 longitudinal stringers / sills.

If you can come up with a another good explanation, let us know!

[SteveG]

Hey Jim,
My undergrad major was physics, not mechanical engineering, but thinking about the forces involved, the use of the needle beams to hold the sills in alignment would make more sense if there was a transverse truss rod running thru the needle beams, to take advantage of the fact that wood is stronger in compression than in tension.
None of the photos to date would seem to support the existence of such rods, and John's comment on the vertical rods thru the car body truss structure would seem to preclude another, transverse rod thru the same beam, but I am reminded of the transverse rods on the car ends that were later discarded (even though the corner brackets were kept on the much later SUF box cars).
It seems the concern on side loads lasted all through the development history of C&S rolling stock.
Regards,
Steve Guty

[Paul R.]

Just a thought, maybe the fact the needle beams are bolted to the frame, would not that transfer some of the load weight on the floor to the sides as they are braced so are trusses??  just thinking! Paul R.

[Keith Hayes]

Hmm, I have a similar model that could use a backstop.

I was thinking that HO decals might be the next best alternative. I will put an order in.

[SteveG]

Hi Paul,
Yeah, that would make a lot of sense, as the needle beams are directly aligned (or at least it sure looks that way) with the sides of the door, so if the vertical rod thru the truss structure of the car side went thru both the side sill and the needle beam, it should stiffen the entire structure pretty effectively.
Steve