Non-Revenue Service Cars

[Jim Courtney]

See Ken Martin's two posts at the bottom of the prior page . . .


Curiouser and curiouser . . .

Anyone have access to early UPD&G or early C&S folio sheets or car rosters that give dimensions for the early standard gauge boxcars?

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/76285/rv/singleitem/rec/1




UPD&G 27361 looks like it might be a candidate for the class of standard gauge boxcar that later produced narrow gauge MOW outfit cars 051 and 052 (maybe 053 and 054 as well).  The car has the same double thickness upper fascia on ends and sides and the door hangers might be similar, too.

"The 1900 ORER lists SG cars as UPD&G no's."

So, Ken, what does the 1900 ORER say about standard gauge box cars numbered in the 27300's?


What will we learn here next??

[Jim Courtney]

At the beginning of this tread, Keith asked: Who makes appropriate lettering in Sn3 (or other scales)? 

I forgot to share my thoughts about lettering C&S outfit cars in Sn3.

Microscale produces a decal set in HO scale: 87-159, Colorado & Southern Narrow Gauge Freight Cars (1910-1941) Freight Cars & Cabooses.  http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MD&Product_Code=87-159&Category_Code=HOSCALE

The block monogram for boxcars and coal cars is 73% the size of the true Sn3 lettering as on the San Juan sets. So the block HO scale monograms could approximate the smaller block monogram on the left side of the outfit boxcars, under the side windows. At $8.25 a set, several outfit cars could be so lettered--use the San Juan sets to provide the car number, i.e 051.

The Leadville Shops has three decal sets that could be useful:

The S scale 1905 C&S boxcar set https://www.theleadvilleshops.com/product-page/cwds-27-c-s-boxcar-ca-1905 could be used to letter cars such as 070 and the picture Chris posted of 052 with abbreviated road name--extremely weathered too be sure--just barely visible, with block or 1930's Roman reporting marks more freshly painted on top.

The S scale C&S cinder car set https://www.theleadvilleshops.com/product-page/cwds-14-c-s-cinder-car provides the original lettering for the converted St Charles cinder cars. Again this lettering should also be heavily weathered for 1930's. The same set provides the original lettering for the 1902 coal and flat cars as well. (Curiously, the box herald on the cinder car set works better on the boxcars, and the box herald on the boxcar set seems to look better on the coal cars, as it is taller).

Finally, the HO scale C&S block style boxcar/coal car set https://www.theleadvilleshops.com/product-page/cwdho-32-c-s-block-style-boxcar-coal-car can be used like the Microscale HO set, to supply a smaller block monogram to the outfit car sides. Bob Stear's artwork includes several different sizes of block monograms for cabooses, outfit cars and boxcars. You can pick and choose the size that seems to fit best to your eye.

Finally, late 1920's to 1930's outfit lettering is pretty much the modern Roman reporting marks and numerals with a weigh or repack date perhaps. Those should be in the San Juan modern C&S lettering sets.

Looking forward to seeing Leadville's first outfit car . . .

[Jim Courtney]

Since no one has yet to post a photo of 089, I thought it should be included.


Gibson photo, in The Mineral Belt, Volume I.


Location not given, I  will suggest the yards in Pine, east of the coal chute.

Photo undated but the icicles hanging from the edge of the clerestory roof suggests it is cold . . .

[Todd A Ferguson]

So it’s probably not July eh Jim😎...

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2019, at 11:29 AM, Jim Courtney [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Since no one has yet to post a photo of 089, I thought it should be included.


Gibson photo, in The Mineral Belt, Volume I.


Location not given, I  will suggest the yards in Pine, east of the coal chute.

Photo undated but the icicles hanging from the edge of the clerestory roof suggests it is cold . . .

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NAML

[Chris Walker]

So it’s probably not July eh Jim😎...

I got early up this morning and when I read that, first thought that flashed through my head was "Why not!"

[Jimmy Blouch]

Any known history for this car?
It is too heavy duty to have always been a non-revenue service car.

Jimmy

[Chris Walker]

 nee 912(1911) nee B-3.  Was also known as the 025 not to be confused with the Combine that became Workcar 025.
see: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/025-perhaps-tp1178.html
and: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/025-again-tp8675p8731.html
and : http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/C-S-Passenger-72-tp2115p2131.html

[Todd A Ferguson]

Also was the Derrick tender flat with sides formerly a DSP&P gondola? Or perhaps gondola with the ends removed?  Were the ends removable on those cars?  Is that the same car Cimarron Works did in On3?

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On Aug 15, 2019, at 11:39 PM, Chris Walker [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

 nee 912(1911) nee B-3.

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[Todd Hackett]

Here's a better close-up of 025 (from Clinton Scott's original glass plate negative):

[Jim Courtney]

I think this is another photo by Dr Scott:




I forget who originally posted this photo on the Forum.

You can see why they referred to passenger cars as the "varnish" . . .

[Chris Walker]

The 025's Marker Flag/Lamp Brackets must have taken a few scalps in its time.  

[Ken Martin]

The brackets stick out because the car is only 7'6" wide. As most cars are 8' wide they need to stick out for the light to be seen in a train.

Ken Martin

[Keith Hayes]

Okay...who is going to produce a model kit or 3d print of this sweet little car in Sn3?

I know Dr. Stears has created drawings for the car published in the Gazette.

I also note the drop beam on the trucks in the Scott image where the piece has an extra drop below the leaf spring. Note the car in MOW service has a more normal drop beam below the springs with the supplemental piece below.

[Todd A Ferguson]

As Bill Peter would tell me “give that a try and let me know how it turns out”.  I think Dr. Stears scratchbuilt his in On3 even...

[Robert McFarland]

Why is it that in all the locomotive  pictures I've seen of the Leavick branch the loco is turned over on its side.

[Pat Student]

Todd

Here's a couple picture of Western Union cars, in color no less, and a description of the train.
 






Hope this helps.

Pat

[Todd A Ferguson]

Pat,  thanks for sharing!!!

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On Aug 28, 2019, at 9:49 PM, Pat Student [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Todd

Here's a couple picture of Western Union cars, in color no less, and a description of the train.
 






Hope this helps.

Pat

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[Todd A Ferguson]

https://youtu.be/Tyc5c3rdNX0

Bill Scobie Sn3 Western Union train...

Todd

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:05 PM, Todd A Ferguson [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Pat,  thanks for sharing!!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 28, 2019, at 9:49 PM, Pat Student [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Todd

Here's a couple picture of Western Union cars, in color no less, and a description of the train.
 






Hope this helps.

Pat

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[South Park]

1919 was the year WU rebuilt the entire South Park mainline from Denver to
Buena Vista, moving their Denver-Salt Lake City thru wires from the D&RG
(via Pueblo and Cañon City route) to the South Park's line, cutting off 100 miles
of line maintenance for that important link.  I find it surprising that more is not
known and documented about this 1919 operation.  Apparently WU bought all
this rolling stock to get the the job done.  Interesting stuff.

[Pat Student]

Trying again to post a description of the train.  Looked good before posting previous message.