Love me tender (With apologies to Elvis) …

[John Schapekahm]

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[Chris Walker]

Yes the K-37 tender is way larger than #70's.
I won't even try to show you how poor my math is but I saw the 1977 gal figure.  So by multiplied that by the 7.5 lb/gal came up with a coal eqiv. around 7 tons.
Water capacity is superfluous as they stop often for water, from what I can remember the C&S tanks were around the same distance apart as the D&RG (small cap C-16), but the oil tank is rather prominent in that short tender.
If someone can do a measurement of the proper oil tank dimensions then there will lie your answer, I'm thinking that #70 carried a way larger oil to water ratio, the fuel amount being comparable to the weight of coal.  And in that, + or - a bit should be able to get to Como and back, all downgrade after Kenosha :)  Well that works on Diesels for me, my old steam driver mate isn't with us anymore and he was a talking encyclopedia on Steam performance, range and power etc.

Remember I'm only testing the notion here as I can't remember where I read the range wasn't enough, and until a Denverite can id the location of Otto's picture.....that's all I was after, not grandstanding and saying "Yes this is a South Park train to Como" I'm not that sort.  The #70 would (in my book) have been a pusher to Pine and cut-off but it's on the Head.
 
I also can't help seeing with Engine placement and makeup that it isn't a South Platte bound train nor a Clear Creek as there appears to be some tonnage behind the pushers, not just a Bobber.  The consist just doesn't fit with any Clear Creek picture and they were regimented in how they ran their trains just as we did here.  

I have asked JR and JC about this, one answer came back saying I should post this here {:))

[Mike Trent]

Yes John, as noted at the top, that page was #70's tender, now on #537.

The page that was included in the Burlington Bulletin that was posted by Derrell is #537's old tender then on #70.

It seems somewhat pointless to try to figure out if #70 could have made a round trip to Como. Lundberg didn't think it could, and they never tried it. No doubt there were numerous trips to Waterton in later years.

[Mike Trent]

John there is a photograph of the rear of #70's tender dated 1937 on page #179 of the Volume VI Robb Pictorial.

Faintly visible below the large "70" are reporting marks that seem to be as follows:

"Capy 3200"
"Capy  13"

Make of that what you will, or at least take a look at it and see if you see it differently. I'd guess the 3200 is probably water capacity in Gallons. Probably 1300 gallons of oil.

I have never heard anywhere that #70 was ever used in helper service on the mainline after being converted to oil. They would never have cut it off halfway up, as the ruling grade went up to Kenosha. Besides, they didn't need it. #58 was brought out of mothballs about the same time.

[Keith Hayes]

Wow, John: four pages of back and forth and over 600 page views.

This group really knows how to tear into an issue!

[John Schapekahm]

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[Mike Trent]

God's gift to nearsighted people. Or, maybe, I have a better contrast of that picture in my copy!

[Chris Walker]

Well, further digging yields this answer via yet another Otto Perry picture. {:))

"Westbound for Silver Plume"
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42581/rv/singleitem



which leads me to another detail, the #70's fire suppression feature.



http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42295/rv/singleitem/rec/47

[Mike Trent]

Amazing, Chris. Keep digging!

By the way, lets reprise that discussion of cab curtains one of these days. I'm still reeling over that one, and it merits discussion here. I'd like to explore a few things with this group that we didn't get to on the NGDF.

[Jim Courtney]

The date on Perry's photo is 1935, which reconciles the silver CONOCO tank car.  We're use to seeing black CONOCO cars in later photos in the 1938-1940 era.

There was a CONOCO distributor in Idaho Springs, any others on the Clear Creek line?

As to the South Park line there were CONOCO cars shipped to Alma per photographs.  While visiting Bailey last summer, I purchased an old B&W film from the 1930s, put together by a local school teacher, from the local Historic Society.  Footage of Baileys in one view from the back platform of the passenger train shows a Conoco Distributor with a large, elevated horizontal storage tank just next to the siding at the west end of town.

BTW Chris, if you don't have a copy of the Hauck's Colorado Rail Annual (10) on the Clear Creek line, it's a worthy purchase.  One chapter quotes multiple train order sheets from 1937.  Traffic on the line was seasonal, picking up in fall and winter as the locals stocked up on coal for the winter.  Two and even three engine trains we're not that uncommon.  

One neat order:

Wednesday, September 8, 1937:
"Denver Run an extra North on Clear Creek 5:15 AM Sept 8th using two NG engines and give them 15 MTY bedded NG double decks and CONX 8 gasoline for Idaho Springs.  Place the car gasoline at Idaho Springs for unloading on trip North go to Georgetown and load 15 sheep for Denver and on trip South pick up CONX 8 MTY tank for Denver. Release helper ENG at Georgetown and helper ENG return to Denver light."

[Chris Walker]

Jim,
A little digression, but worth filling in on.

Baileys Oil tank...
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42967/rv/singleitem/rec/1




Idaho Springs Oil Siding.  Note the tank car, this will soon be dissappear with erection of the "Oil House" building
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/3381/rv/singleitem/rec/2




OilHouse.
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/67645/rv/singleitem/rec/24



Apparently the subject of the C&S being unable to supply Oil to outlying areas may not have been too hard after all.  
 #7111 flatcar 1941 photo also found on pg60 NGPictorial viii
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42645/rv/singleitem/rec/117




Thanks for the book tip, I wore out my friend's copy and was told to get my own, way back in '83.

[Keith Hayes]

 Chris,  darn your good. What about Leadville? It would not take much to inspire me to make a model of that tank car.

[Rick Steele]

Jim,

The yard map of Central City shows the tanks that I drew up for the Gazette plus the Oil House, plus the Office located in the Central City Yard. Central City was certainly on the Clear Creek Line. It is noted as "Continental Oil Company" on the Valuation Map.

Don't look for CONOCO. Look for "Continental Oil Company". Like Chevron, Sohio, Marathon, Socony and Esso, Conoco back then is a trade name, not the name of the corporation. I believe that Conoco, unlike the others mentioned above was not a refugee company from the breakup of the John D. Rockefeller Standard Oil Empire.

Rick

[Chris Walker]

Someone say Central City Oil ?   I remember reading about it, in a Gazette issue, a lifetime ago  {:))

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/78616/rv/singleitem/rec/408



I would only be guessing but was there a trend to be burning oil for home heating purposes here around the 20's onwards?

[CM Auditor]

Rick,
The "Continental Oil Company" was in fact the Corporate name for Rockefeller's Standard Oil Empire early western oil operations in the 1870s.  It didn't become a brand name until the middle 1880s.  All of the Florence CO oil ops controlled Rockefeller were controlled using the Continental Oil Company monicker.
Tom

[Jim Courtney]

And so we come full circle--started with oil tenders on the C&SnG and end up with oil storage facilities on the C&SnG!

Yes, I now remember the Central City article, Rick.  And, yes Chris, it was a lifetime ago.

[Rick Steele]

Thanks for the correction Tom,

I tried to double check myself using wikipedia, cross referencing both Conoco and Standard Oil.

Guess I can't believe everything I read.

Rick

[CM Auditor]

Rick,
Hence my earlier inquiry about the Rocky Mountain Oil Company, I am preparing a clinic on early Colorado Oil Production.
Tom

Rick Steele [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum] wrote:

Thanks for the correction Tom,

I tried to double check myself using wikipedia, cross referencing both Conoco and Standard Oil.

Guess I can't believe everything I read.

Rick

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[John Schapekahm]

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[Doug Heitkamp]

Just some pics for the group. Top one is Grant, CO in 1929. Bottom one is where? 1925.

Doug