Kokomo

[John Greenly]

Here are the final dimensions I've settled on for the roof of the Kokomo depot, they are nearly identical to my second test roof in the photos I've posted above except the pitches of both gable and hip are very slightly lower.  Jeff, I hope this will help get you going on your model, and if you by any chance wanted to make up a new drawing of the depot you're welcome to use these revised dimensions if you decide they're good.

main gable roof:  24'6" long, 8:12 (33.7 degrees) pitch,  exposed panels 7'6" wide
exposed gable end: 12'6"wide at bottom, 4'2" high (exposed bottom edge to peak)

hip inside edge (at junction with gable roof) length and width: 24'6" x 12'6"
hip outside edge length and width: 35'6" x 23'6"
hip panel width: 6' (pitch is 5:12 or 22.6 degrees)

That means that to build this you cut four symmetric trapezoidal (to the geometers: isosceles trapezoid) hip panels 6' wide, one pair with its parallel sides 12'6" and 23'6", and the other pair 24'6" and 35'6".  Join these together at the resulting mitered corners (all the miter angles will be equal), and there's your hip, with the correct pitch.

It's nice to find that the dimensions turn out to be simple round numbers.  This roof will have its hip miters located very nearly exactly above the corners of the building with dimensions 28'4" x 16'3".

I've compared this roof with all the available photographs and it matches within the limits of resolution and visibility of edges in the various photos.  Changes of 3" in any of the dimensions make differences that do not match as well.  This means that these dimensions are to the surface and edges of the roof shingles;  a builder will have to figure the supporting structure to put the roof at the right height with a chosen roof material thickness.  When I get around to finalizing that with my model I'll post it here.

hope this will help make models that please their builders!
John

(note added: it appears to me that Keith has chosen quite different dimensions for the hip on his roof)

[Jeff Young]

Thanks, John!

I've still got a water tank, tool house, pump house, and two houses to go in Jefferson, but I might take a Jefferson-break and build the Kokomo depot while the iron is hot.

Cheers,
Jeff.

[John Greenly]

 >I might take a Jefferson-break and build the Kokomo depot while the iron is hot.

>Cheers,
>Jeff.

I can't hold you to that thought, but it would be great if you did, I would learn a lot about how to do my model properly.

John

[Keith Hayes]

Jeff, it is clearly the thing to do this summer!

[Keith Hayes]

Progress at Kokomo!

My guys have been busy.

Paint and now starting to shingle the roof!

Espee, one detail I conscientiously did not include on this model is the insulator bracket on the window where the line dropped to the depot. As has been noted, two wires extended over Fremont Pass, and these entered the operators bay on the passenger side of the depot. The bracket was still in place at abandonment.

[Keith Hayes]

Mostly done with the roof...

[Keith Hayes]

Door and window parts are posted on Shapeways (Poverty Flats Model Company) in S and O scale.

Let's see some buildings!

[Chris Walker]

Recently some kind person offered up this wonderful view of yet another Mill at Robinson/Kokomo.




Note the Headframe right behind the massive Mill building, just what a Modeller needs for a layout, nice and compact.



My apologies for not submitting this image sooner....

[Jeff Young]

I can’t see any evidence in that picture, but the D&RG had a spur to the Wilson mill.  Judging from that and the location of the Wilson shaft, the mill should be just outside Robinson to the north.  (If you panned the shot a bit to the right, you could probably see Kokomo in the background.)

[Chris Walker]

Keith Pashina, noted Gilpin Tram authority during his research into the Mines and Mills came across this picture in the Mining World Journal.....shows the spur that Jeff is mentioning.  Thanks Keith.

[El Gringo Grande]

My memory is gone! I did talk to Doug and knew I didn't get the roof quite right. Is still on my "to-do" list for correcting the drawing.

What I don't remember is where this was published!

Chris Lane

[El Gringo Grande]

I have no earthly idea why I drew the doors and windows with the peaked pediment. I had the photo we are referencing. Perhaps I did it because I had already done the Grandt casting drawings, and my intent was to go back and edit the tops, but it was over 10 years ago that I drew it, and I simply can't remember. Of course I forgot I was the editor of Colorado Narrow Gauge quarterly for over a year too, so that should tell you something...

As I mentioned, I had to take some guesses on the roof, but I felt confident that the building dimensions were correct and the windows and doors were the right size and placement, all based off the C&S field notes.

Chris Lane

[Jeff Young]

I mostly finished the Almgren Bros sawmill at Jefferson (I didn't draw up plans so I had to get the basics built before I forgot what I was doing).  But then I lost my SD card so no pictures yet....

But it was a good time to pause and switch gears to the Kokomo depot.

So far I've just been re-sizing Grandt Line parts for the bay window.

Anyone have dimensions of the two car bodies or the handcar shed?

[Jeff Young]

What did you guys do on the backs of your depots?  This picture makes me think there's a single window to the far left:



Chris' plans (CoNGQ) show both a window and a door, while Cliff's kit has two windows, a door and a freight door.  I imagine the CM kit design is to make it more interesting for non-rivet-counters.

While it feels like there ought to be a back door, that's largely down to the arrangement of the car-body sheds and outhouse (and perhaps the modern predilection for multiple exists in the case of fire).  If you look at the depot in its original downtown location, it clearly didn't need a back door, and I doubt that the C&S would have added one later.

Did Dimmler have anything to say on the subject?

[Keith Hayes]

Here you are, Jeff.

[John Greenly]

Yup, I'm doing the same as Keith.  Chris Lane's drawing is clear on this, there was a back door and the one window.

Jeff, in this photo if you bring up the shadow values you find that there is no information at all in the shadow under the roof, except for a light area where the window is- maybe a shade, or it was boarded up by then?   I don't think you can conclude that there was no door.

Keith, your depot looks great!

I'd also be very interested in info on the carbodies and the handcar shed.

cheers,
John

[Jim Courtney]

Anyone have dimensions of the two car bodies or the handcar shed?

Hey Jeff and John,

I have in my files one of John Maxwell's drawings which states that the car body at Kokomo (the one parallel to the mainline, and a bit upgrade from the depot--the one to the left in the photo Jeff posted above) was originally C&S 7660. Maxwell notes that he measured the car body in early 1963, so must have found some residual lettering/numbering.

C&S 7660 was one of the Peninsular 30' boxcars, built for the DSP&P in 1884. Per Ron Rudnick, originally numbered 970-1049; 1080-1099. They eventually made their way to the new C&S, renumbered 7617-7716.

After the C&S completed all the new freight car construction in 1910, this was about the only class of original South Park boxcars to survive in revenue service, although briefly. They may have never had the USSA appliances applied, some were converted to work cars in the early to mid-teens. Most all the survivors eventually ended up as line side sheds.

As to dimensions, per Ron Rudnick's excellent drawings:

Length = 30' 0" and width 7' 6" over the outside sheathing.
Height of sides (to top of upper fascia) was 7' 3".
Height of ends (to top peak of the end fascia board) was 7' 9".

There should be a folio drawing of this class of box car in the "Files" section.

The original outside sheathing was likely the common DSP&P 5-1/4", center groove siding. So in HOn3, scribed siding with grooves of about 0.030" apart should be about right. Later photos of the Kokomo car body show the liberal use of black tar paper.

As originally built the end upper fascia board had the typical UP curved lower edge. There are some photos showing end fascia boards with the common horizontal lower edge, suggesting that rebuilding caused a lot of variation.

If you will recall this great photo. . .




. . . C&S 7681, to the right, is a 30' Peninsular box car -- note the horizontal lower edge to the end fascia.  The boxcar also looks to have been re-sheathed as well, compared to C&S 7520, to the left. The photo should give you most of what you need to model the car hardware.  You're on your on as to windows and side/end people doors from later outfit car service, though there are a few outfit car drawings in the Folio sheets in "Files".

I'm not sure of the origin of the other car body (the one perpendicular to the mainline), behind the depot. Since we think the depot was moved from its downtown location in the mid 19teens, it was quite likely another Peninsular 30' box car, cast aside as a shed at about the same time. But if your layout / diorama scene is short on depth, there is no reason you couldn't use a 27' car body or a 26' car body or even one of the 24' Colorado Central box car bodies, to truncate things a bit. All three of these box car classes ended up being used as outfit cars. (A Litchfield 26' car body sat by the tail of the wye at Pine for years, still there in the 1960's when Maxwell measured that one as well).

Perhaps Ron Rudnick can accurately identify the C&S car numbers of the two Kokomo car bodies.

. . . and the handcar shed.

John, there is a standard C&S drawing of a "Combined Tool and Car House" in the "Files" section as well. Also one for a depot coal shed and outhouses of various numbers of stalls.

I'm glad to see that some people are building C&S models . . .

[John Greenly]

Jim,

wonderful! thanks so much for digging out all this information.

John

[Jeff Young]

Indeed, absolutely fabulous info Jim!

And here I was thinking as a 1920’s modeller I didn’t need to know all that stuff about the TOC hardware. ;)

[Jim Courtney]

One afterthought:

In the photo of the back of the Kokomo depot, that Jeff posted, is a pretty good view of the end of the car body up the hill, behind the depot. Take a good look at the upper fascia board on the end. To my eye, it looks like it has either an upward curve to the lower edge or the lower edge is peaked.

See what your eye sees -- if it is a peaked lower fascia edge, it has to be one of the Litchfield 26 foot cars.  If the lower edge is curved upwards, it would have to be one of the UP era cars, and the possibilities include:
1) Last order of 24 foot cars for the CC, UP built.
2) 27 foot cars of 1883, again UP built.
3) Peninsular 30 foot car, built for UP owner of South Park.

I really can't tell for sure . . .