D&RG /D&RGW Freight Car Information

[Southpark]

I will give more info later but I am off to a shoot (out) at the old South Platte Hotel.  Chris should be able to make a correction to the ore routing.  See Colorado Historic Newspapers for 1895 on the Alpine tunnel, or check Klinger's book on the Gunnison Division.  Tom Klinger

[Pat Student]

One would need to refer to the freight tariffs in effect.

My vote would be D&RG / Denver / UPD&G, as railroads don't like to short haul  themselves.

[Chris Walker]

Thanks Pat,

I wasn't certain about the routing Rates back then:

I've  only read about modernday S.G. routings, i.e. S.P. Oregon traffic, handed off to the U.P via the Modoc by agreement and common ownership, nixed after the U.P. bought W.P. I was leaning to the Grande not handing over at Gunnison.  
However, I have read that Shippers could have specified routings: whether that applied at this time period I have no idea.

We probably would like to imagine that the Alpine route was used, and again I wasn't certain of exactly when the Tunnel re-opened either.


Tom,

was this mentioned in your book? I only briefly thumbed it to see if that shipment(or others) was mentioned.

[Dave Eggleston]

Chris Walker wrote

We probably would like to imagine that the Alpine route was used, and again I wasn't certain of exactly when the Tunnel re-opened either.

Chris and Tom, work on the re-opening was underway in May, 1895, resulting in multiple deaths. On June 25, 1895, traffic began to flow through again. Chaffee County Republican 6/26/1895:



Despite that final sentence in the article, the UPD&G found itself back to closing down the tunnel every year due to snow. During those extended periods cars from the Baldwin mines, and whatever other traffic trickled to the UPD&G, were routed over Marshall Pass, as far as I can tell from reports.

Dave

[Southpark]

On the topic of freight routs in the spring of 1895, the Alpine tunnel had a late and sad opening in that 4 men lost their lives in the tunnel.  Details are covered in newspaper articles found on Colorado Historic Newspapers web site if one makes a search for the time frame of May 1 to about July of 1895.
Many many years later Pat and Dan Windolph made a "chance" discovery of Denver Leadville & Gunnison treasurer's documents of some of the payouts of this disaster at a Denver area train show.  These are reproduced on pages 174-175 of South Park's Gunnison Division Memories.
I would say that still another routing of the ore in the original thread would be from Salida to Buena Vista on the DRG and then by the DL&G to Como, Denver and up Clear Creek.
On the South Platte shoot(out) of Friday Jan 13.  Documentation and interviews were obtained of the old South Platte Hotel which is in great danger of being razed.    This is at the junction of the Night Hawk branch the the DSP&P line west in Platte Canon.  The hotel site is noted as to the location of a shoot out in Aug of 1912 by a stage driver and folks at the hotel.  The original hotel was burned by the shooter and today's hotel is the replacement.  Tom Klinger

[Dave Eggleston]

Tom,

A selection of articles on those four deaths from June 1895.

June 10 1895 Boulder Daily Camera



June 11 1895 Salida Mail






June 14 Herald Democrat



June 20 Saguache Crescent



Note: there was another fatal accident in late May when a flatcar carrying men through the tunnel took off out of control after becoming uncoupled from the engine pulling it; one man jumped and died instantly in the tunnel, the other 12 jumped when the car exited the tunnel and were bruised but walked from the accident.

[Chris Walker]

Since the Carload of Ore to Idaho was in March 1895 we can say it didn't go via Alpine Tunnel.

Pat mentioned Railroads don't shorthaul themselves, that was what I was leaning towards.
However, Tom brought up the Buena Vista interchange.

So like all good Enginemen everywhere, I got out my Employee timetables.....noting RGS under D&RG control then.
Telluride-Ridgway 45 miles  (RGS)
Ridgway-Denver  377 miles  (D&RG 422 miles t.)
Denver-Idaho         37 miles (UPD&G 37 miles t.)
   
Telluride-Idaho 459 miles t. w/ Car sat in Ridgway/Montrose/Salida/Pueblo/Denver yards enroute.

Alternate Routing.
Telluride-Ridgway 45 miles  (RGS)
Ridgway-B. Vista 186 miles (D&RG 231 miles t.)
B.V.-Denver         136 miles
Denver-Idaho         37 miles (UPD&G 173 miles t.)
 
Telluride-Idaho 404 miles t. w/ Car sat in Ridgway/Montrose/Salida/B.V.y/Denver yards enroute.


So I question .... 
Was there any requirement to hand-off the Shipment to the delivering Railroad at the nearest connection?

[Pat Student]

Chris

At time of billing a car is routed by the agent or the shipper.  The agent would route the car to get the most milage for his/her railroad.

The shipper would likely route based on the lowest rate. Using your Buena Vista interchange possibility, the shipper would need to know the rate. There might not be a rate that specifically characterizes his ore in which case it would be rated as ore, noi or ore, noibn (not otherwise indexed or not otherwise indexed by name) which carried higher rates than those for specific ores. Further the value of his ore could affect his decision

Pat

[Dave Eggleston]

So here's a wrinkle for the South Park: Baldwin coal shipments that I am pretty convinced flowed over Marshall Pass when the mines remained in operation during tunnel closures, or simply cars of coal stranded at Gunnison due to snow closures.

The BV handoff makes sense to me for coal destined to Romley, Como, Denver or Breckenridge--or the myriad smaller customers along the South Park. But wouldn't Leadville-destined cars create a new headache: face the longer, and more costly, run on South Park/D&LG/C&S rails or leave the cars with the D&RG(W) to run the 30-something miles up the Arkansas Valley? Did the lines create routing exceptions to the inter-company rules during these periods? The South Park was clearly, once again, behind the ball on this traffic no matter how it was sliced or routed.

But even if handoff was not required, would the South Park ever still opt to let the D&RG(W) handle the load to Leadville for financial reasons during tunnel closures? Even if it seems less logical to let go of the traffic did a decision based on operational costs offsetting profits end up favoring leaving the cars on D&RG(W) rails all the way to Leadville? Were special Leadville routing exceptions the rule between the South Park and it's competitor for this traffic?

[Chris Walker]

Pat,

thanks for that.