C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

[Jim Courtney]

Looking good Keith!

Yea, if the brake rigging (especially airlines) on Sn3 PRO 13 are the same as HOn3 RPO 13, much of it doesn't make sense.

[Keith Hayes]

Well, Jim, now you are going to cause me to consult my PBL D&RGW fleet to see what's what. I may also need to pull out my other Cimarron C&S models to see if there is any guidance there.

My chief issue is that the action from the brake cylinder goes to one end and then all the way across the car to the other end in a non-sensical way. I would think the action would move from the cylinder to one lever, which in turn would travel to both ends of the car. The brake wheel chains should both go to the levers at either end of the car. It is like there is an extra part on the model.

When I was volunteering for work sessions on the C&TS, I got to know a mechanical engineer (a member of the Friends) who was working on the tank cars. Using his trusty laptop, he created a spreadsheet to recreate the ratios of the brake system and used the adjustment holes to tune the brakes. Train crews reported a remarkable difference in how the cars handled after this (to the better). This experience among others instilled in me a great respect for 19th Century car builders. And all this was figured out in the day with what my Grandfather referred to as his "slip stick."

Glass was installed last night.


And security bars.


Oh...and the tank car fleet is nearly complete.

Did I just post a D&RGW photo on a C&S forum? Oops.

[Keith Hayes]

Smart people:

Do the C&S RPOs have two air hoses on them like their D&RGW brethern?

I get that locos had two air lines on tenders in order to operate flanger 015 (and 013).

But my Spidey sense tells me there was not a signal line on the passenger cars, so I only need to provide the single brake line with air hoses on the RPO. By contrast, when the D&RGW modified the narrow gauge passenger fleet for Shavano/ San Juan service, the designated equipment received a second air line for signals. Cars designated for Chili Line service were also so modified as these cars were run as a single movement with the San Juan from Alamosa to Antonito (Hence for that segment you would see an express car, a long RPO, a short RPO, an open platform coach, two enclosed platform coaches and a parlour car doubled-headed with twin K-28s!).

Thanks in advance for your postulating.

[Jim Courtney]

I count two:




By the 1930s, the air signal line doesn't seem to be used much (with a two car passenger train you can use hand signals). Several photos show the signal line hose hooked up to either the safety chain hook or an end beam grab iron.

Looks like a job for Jimmy Booth's "real rubber" air hoses.

[Keith Hayes]

D'OH!

Thank you Jim. I don't know why it didn't occur to me to check the photos.

Well, here is my approximation of the brake line, signal line and brake rigging.



There should be a second set of levers that transfer the movement from the  brake wheels, and these ar connected down the car centerline with a rod.

I am calling this one good for now.

[South Park]

  Jim,

  Do you know the location of that last photo you posted ?

  I do not recognize the trees, unless it was at South Platte
at the end of scrapping ops ???

[Robert McFarland]

I believe you'r right SP !

[Keith Hayes]

The photo of 11 is reported to be at Waterton. A number of passenger cars were stored there before the end of operations.

[SteveG]

Hi Jim (and anyone else who has ordered this),
Did you have any issue with residual stickiness on the car body after using Bestine and soapy water?
I've done a light scrub with Bestine 3 times, washed it twice, and even run it through an ultrasonic bath, yet the vertical scribed sides just in from both ends are still tacky to the touch--even after drying for several days. I'm a bit hesitant to start priming the car body until I've figured out what's going on here.

Steve Guty
Redmond, WA

[Lee Gustafson]

Shapeways says to use “Simple Green” to clean up the”frosted Ultra Detail Resin” followed by a rinse in isopropyl alcohol. This was posted on the HOn3 list by Dale Buxton.

Lee Gustafson

[SteveG]

Thanks! I tried that and still had some residual stickiness. What worked was some additional UV curing, followed by an ultrasonic cleaning with a mix of isopropyl alcohol and water.

[South Park]

  Contemporary newspaper reports often mentioned that NG C&S
rolling stock had a sticky feel to the exteriors, so it is prototypically
correct.  😜

[Keith Hayes]

The completed floor ready for final assembly.

I did not install the two dead levers that transfer the brake motion from the brake wheels: these would be outboard of the dead levers on either end, and connected to the installed levers with a chain.

The two air lines are in place, with the crossover to the air tank.

The Cimarron brass needle beams are a bit wider than the model: I should have cut about 4"-6" out of the middle.  Oh, well.

[Keith Hayes]

I pronounce this project complete!

I installed the Soundcar and speaker today.

This was a fun project. Thanks to occasional contributor Linn Moedinger for a neat 3d print. Now that Linn is retired hopefully he will post in these parts more. I leave it to Jim to continue to post updates of his car. Thanks for all the contributions that made this a better model.

Speaking of which, there is another conversation occurring about lettering. This model uses Thinfilm decals, which are the imitation gold. They do fade right into the green, just like the real thing. I have been wondering how Derrell Poole got such an opaque effect on the cars he printed for me? I now suspect he use some Cimarron decals--I had forgotten about those. Maybe after a few years these two cars will return to the paint shop for some Delux Gold lettering.

[Paul R.]

Keith,
Thanks for the construction series, a great help for the rest of us who will be building one of these 'Kits'. Paul R.

[Jim Courtney]

Well, once again Keith has finished his project and I'm not even half done. I haven't worked on RPO 11 since my last post.

I got hung up on how to do the under frame details in HOn3: How to model the truss rods, their attachments to queen posts and the car fasteners, brake rigging, etc.

Sometimes procrastination has its rewards -- every couple of weeks, I visit Linn's Shapeways shop, hoping to find a C&S baggage car or combine (hint to Linn). About a month ago, I noticed that the HOn3 version of RPO 11 had been removed from Linn's available prints. A few weeks later Linn posted a new print of RPO 11 in HOn3, call it "RPO 11-2.0"  The new body includes all the details that we discussed at the top of this thread--even includes the water fill hatch on the roof and the RPO letter drop slots!

More importantly, Linn now offers a floor and under frame for RPO 11, sold as a separate print:


https://www.shapeways.com/product/FC8LWKHW2/c-s-baggage-rpo-cars-10-11-12-body-only?optionId=95180334


Thinking this would be a great solution, I ordered a floor.

The floor is incredible, with brake rigging, cylinder/reservoir, piping, needle beams and queen posts printed as a single print. Even includes the queen post braces and the truss rods that support the needle beams.





There are 4 printed posts to protect the delicate queen posts in printing/shipping. The queen posts don't have webs for the truss rods, likely beyond the print tolerances of this small scale.




The floor also has printed bolsters, and coupler pads with mounting holes printed. The truss rod attachments are nicely rendered as well.

Too good to be true?  Well, yes . . . the printed floor for RPO 11 doesn't fit into my RPO original print.

Evidently, Linn's body print 2.0 must have a different layout of the underside of the car body, compared to the first body version.  To use the printed floor on my primed body (version 1.0) will take a lot of major reworking of the printed floor. It would likely make more sense to just buy the upgraded body print.

At any rate, my HOn3 RPO 11 is on indefinite pause. With retirement and a move to Waco, Texas, only a year or so away, these pieces will be boxed up and stored for the move. Will I ever complete my HOn3 RPO? Probably, but not just yet.

I've spent all of my limited model building time in the last 12-14 months experimenting in HOn3 modeling of the C&S, should I end up with only a large walk-in closet for layout space after the move. The experiment has been quite useful. With all the aftermarket parts available today (compared to my last HOn3 experience in the 1970's), such as Blackstone trucks, Sergent couplers, code 40/55 flex track, Loco-Doc re-motoring kits for Key brass locomotives, Shapeways prints, I'm convinced that an operating  C&S HOn3 layout is feasible. And as our own Jeff Young has demonstrated, scenery and structures can be constructed to a level of realism to rival the larger scales.

But for now, all the C&S HOn3 stuff is boxed up until I get settled in Waco and get the lay of the layout land.

But that doesn't mean no C&S model building in the year until the move. On the contrary, I've just started a new adventure in C&Sn3 . . .

[Steve Black]

When I went on to Linn's store on Shapeways I didn't see the Sn3 version of this car anymore.

Steve

[Ride Trains]

If we can go another 15-20 years we will likely have inexpensive high resolution 3D printers on our workbenches at a reasonable cost. - You were wrong. It was only five.

[Todd A Ferguson]

It’s a good thing to be wrong about if I have to be wrong…  The ability to do the 3D solid modeling will always be the biggest challenge most people will face.  I’ve been considering for a few years getting into this for some things I would like to model myself.  But it would also be yet another thing competing for my time.  So I hesitate…

I have thought that if modelers would build up a shared library of common parts it would be cool and move things forward at a much quicker pace.  But it seems most people are still looking to it as an income producing proposition.

Thoughts?   I don’t know if I’ve said on this forum but I worked with 3D printing and solid modeling in the early years back in the mid 1980s to about 1991.

[SteveG]

That's an idea worth pursuing, Todd. I've got a number of .stl files I'd be willing to contribute to this project, if we can get some agreement on fair versus commercial use, similar to what exists with regard to current practice in copyright law.
I'd have no issue with others using the files for personal use; I have no desire to make piles of money from any of my 3D work, but I would want some say if others chose to use it commercially.
One complicating issue is that .stl files have no metadata or ability to embed a copyright notice, as far as I can determine. So it'd probably make sense to distribute as zips with an embedded copyright notice and a 'by opening this zip, you are agreeing to an acknowledgment of copyright' notice (like the old 'break the seal' EULAs for retail software). Might require a zip-within-a-zip approach to make sure the notice is visible before the content is revealed,
Just to kickstart the process further, here are some 3D prints I'd be willing to contribute if an accord can be reached:

Those are early-version tender shells, a 1902 coal/flat underframe, some NY brake gear systems on the print supports, some striker plates I did at Jim Courtney's suggestion in both HO (for me) and S (for him), and some oil headlights for the pre-electric era.
Also have some files for ASF bolsters, which Jim Courtney made use of recently.
To simplify scaling, I work in prototype inches in my CAD program, and then adjust in the slicing software (which defaults to millimeters) to the desired scale.

Regards,
Steve Guty
Lakeway TX