South Park Timeline Footnote: The Diamond Stacks of 1910

[Jim Courtney]

The "Timeline" sticky, under "Motive Power", contains this statement:

1905 all engines now have shotgun stacks (engines #13, #30 #59 were all photographed around 1910 with atypical, new diamond stacks, perhaps a temporary experiment in spark control)


This photo from DPL shows #30 had lost its "McConnell" stack and had a shotgun stack sometime between 1905-mid 1906, before the new lettering scheme was adopted:

http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/5116/rec/1




Coleman's Narrow Gauge Pictorial VI, has c1910-1911 photos of both #30 and #59, with near identical diamond stacks that are unlike any UP-DSP&P-Utah Northern stacks (that preceded the late 1890s McConnell stack).  The photos of #30 are on the Alma branch, the #59 at Gunnison at the end of operations there.  Examples:







Doug Heitkamp posted this dated 1910 photo on a thread on this site of #13 with an identical odd diamond stack:

http://c-sn3-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/quot-Oh-that-s-attractive-quot-td3605.html



Doug pointed out that it is unclear whether all three engines had separate identical diamond stacks at this time, or possibly a single odd diamond stack was constructed as an experiment in spark control, and sequentially trialed on each of the 3 engines. As soon as the cone-shaped "Como" stack appeared, the diamond stack(s) disappear.

[Robert McFarland]

Atypical?The stacks on these engines resemble some of the stacks used on the engines used as pushers in the Snowplow Trials on the east side of Alpine Tunnel in 1890.Checkout the photo of DL&G 269 in DSP&P Pictorial.

[Jim Courtney]

By atypical, I mean that C&S power inherited from the UP was equipped with the McConnell "pancake" stack. By 1904 or 1905, all engines had been converted to the shotgun stacks. Then, for reasons unclear, a small number of engines "regressed" and had a diamond stack different from the McConnell applied for a brief period, until the "Como" spark arrestor on a shotgun stack became the norm.

Did someone at the C&S shops find one or more old UP stacks in storage? Why then pull them out and put them on a few engines in 1910?

The 1910 diamond stacks look to me to be different than the typical UP diamond of 1885-1895, perhaps new construction of an old pattern. Anyone know for sure?

[Jeff Young]

The 64 was also sporting a diamond stack in 1909.  (Narrow Gauge Pictorial Vol VI p.149)

[Chris Walker]

Salida Centennial Archive Photo

[Jim Courtney]

Is it me, or does number 30 have white painted driver tires (and rods) in this view?  Can anyone think of other C&S locomotive with white tires?

[Chris Walker]

I see white tyres,  #30 was probably the Como Roundhouse Pet.

[South Park]

  The latter day pancake stacks are proportionately all wrong to the 1890's
versions.  The straight lower part is much shorter, lowering the "pancake"
significantly.  The "pancake" itself has a notably smaller outer diameter,
creating the appearance that it is taller, but this might just be an illusion
caused by the smaller diameter ?

  Is it possible the "pancake" is somehow attached to the now-standard
shotgun stack, thusly creating the odd height proportion ?  Most times the
stack is one piece and the entire unit disconnected at the smokebox, but
perhaps, for the purposes of experimentation, a simpler "bolt on" idea was
tried over the existing shotgun stack ?

[Todd Hackett]

South Park wrote

... Is it possible the "pancake" is somehow attached to the now-standard
shotgun stack, thusly creating the odd height proportion ?...

The straight stacks on the C&S were cast, and the flange to connect them to the base was integral to the casting. This seems to be the case even on early C&S era straight stacks. The various diamond stacks looked to have a rolled and riveted straight section that fit into a base casting which attached to the stack base on the smokebox. This is easiest to see in the photo of #30 that Chris posted. These photos of the later diamond appear to have the early style construction for the base and straight section, so I don't think the diamond simply bolted on to the already-present straight stack.

Here's a comparison of #30's diamond with an early straight stack on #6:

[South Park]

  Great intel, Todd.  Well, there goes that theory !

  I always thought these stacks looked goofy.  Like those fakey stacks
Hollywood would put on movie locos to make them look older.  They
NEVER got it right !

[Robert McFarland]

What about the stacks on some of the Sumter Valley engines?Or the Colorado Central engines that had extended  smokeboxes...and diamond stacks?Changing the subject a little bit-when did the Rhode Island consolidations lose their extended smoke boxes and receive their diamond stacks?

[Mike Trent]

Hi Jim. Well, proof that these are not misdated, but rather an experiment of some sort to try to further improve screens and baffling combined with a diamond stack design is the fact that these engines all have extended smokeboxes. The C&S and UP were relentless in this sort of thing.

In 1918, the Ridgway design was adapted under extreme pressure from the US Forest Service. So there was a lot of angst over fire prevention decades before "climate change" and such.

[South Park]

  When the company was legally on the hook to pay for damages
caused by train-started fires, all sorts of effort and creativity was
expended in the shops.