Sn3 Overland C&S Locomotives Listed for Sale

[Jim Courtney]

If anyone modeling the C&S in Sn3 needs more motive power, Rocky Mountain Trains has quite a collection of Overland 2-6-0s and 2-8-0s, from an estate, currently listed for sale: http://www.rockymountaintrains.biz/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5&zenid=799ea4dfd9a7295dc08796f15f897248

Some of the models are rare and hard to find, currently there are 11 still listed, reasonably priced.

I was able to pick up a couple of engines that I've been looking for yesterday.

[Jeff Young]

Cool!  A #5 with intermediate tender and Como spark arrestor!

Cheers,
Jeff.

[Jim Courtney]

Cool indeed!

Yesterday I picked up a c1918 C&S 21 with the "Como" arrestor, that looked like this:




All of the 2-6-0s listed are from the second Overland run, from the 1990s.  None have the fast running problems of the earlier run of 2-6-0s from the mid 1980s.

Jim

[South Park]

  Gents,

  This is semi-embarrassing, but we're all family here, right ???  

  There was no S-gauge when I was modeling.  Where does it fit
in the O-HO-N spectrum for size ?

[Robert McFarland]

When were you modeling?

[South Park]

  1970's

  If S existed, it was pretty exotic and something I never heard of.

  I recall On3 and HOn3 being pretty exotic and limited in what
was available.

[South Park]

[Jeff Young]

1:64.  About halfway between HO and O.

Another way to think about it is that Sn3 engines and cars are roughly the same size as standard-gauge HO engines and cars.

Cheers,
Jeff.

[Oldbear52]

I looked at the web page and it almost makes me want to sell off my on30 engines and rolling stock to do sn3. Seriously, after seeing so many photos of the various layouts the thought crossed my mind.
Oldbear aka Fred

[Robert McFarland]

PFM had imported locos and Swede Norlin had Tomalco kits as far back as the 70s or maybe even farther.

[Lee Gustafson]

Swede Norlin (Tomalco) imported Sn3 and Sn3 1/2 (HO gauge) C-16's in the early 1970's. I believe they were #278 later PFM brought in Sn3 C-16's #223 which Bill Peters purchased the remaining stock and offered an Sn3 "train set" a PFM C-16, four PBL car kits, track, paint and glue. That was the start of PBL models. Overland imported C&S locomotives in the late 70's. Other list members have more information to add.

Lee Gustafson

[South Park]

  A friend from back in day modeled in On3, and his rolling stock
looked much like standard gauge HO stuff.  Where is S in this ?

[Lee Gustafson]

A comparison of a 30 foot narrow gauge freight car, in On3 is 7 1/2 inches long,  in Sn3  the 30 foot freight car is ~5 5/8 inches long, an HO standard gauge 40 foot freight car is 5 1/2 inches long. The Sn3 30 foot car and the standard gauge HO 40 car are almost the same length. On3 is ~33% larger than Sn3. Hope that helps.

Lee Gustafson

[South Park]

  We have a winner !  Thanks, Lee.  

  Cut yerself and extra slice of raisin pie.  

[Keith Hayes]

Espee, does this help?

From left to right, On3 Grandt kit; Sn3 Overland brass model; HOn3 Balboa brass model.

Thanks to Jim's lead, I have a C&S 69 headed my way. I guess I had better get an Econami, speaker, current keeper, and some lights and get ready for a decoder install! (When is Caboose supposed to open?)

[Jim Courtney]

If anyone is considering modeling the Morrison branch, in the early 1920s, that C&S number 22 with the Ridgeway spark arrestor and "intermediate tender" is just begging to be purchased as the power for the "mixed":


Morrison, October 1, 1923. Jackson photo in Poole and Martin, Grandt's Narrow Gauge Pictorial VI


The same engine could be used to represent C&S number 21 on the "Fish Train":


Denver, early 1920s.  R&LHS collection, California State Railroad Museum, in Poole and Martin, Grandt's Narrow Gauge Pictorial VI


Or, with minor plumbing changes, it could be used as the locomotive for the Central City passenger train, c1920-1925.  Cooke number 12 would look great parked in front of the Central City depot:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/42198/rec/63



Whether one chooses to model 1900 or 1941 or anywhere in between, the C&S narrow gauge lines were an "all you can eat" buffet!  So many choices, so many neat things to model . . . it's really hard to choose. (He says, trying to resist the impulse to buy "just one more" brass engine.)

[Keith Hayes]

Use the force, Jim.

[Paul R.]

I scored a #21without stack, my idea is to install a Mc Connel stack . Will I have to alter anything else for the right time frame.I also got a 2-6-0 in Hon3 to work on. Paul R

[South Park]

Espee, does this help?

From left to right, On3 Grandt kit; Sn3 Overland brass model; HOn3 Balboa brass model.

======================================

  If you had a can of Pepsi there for size comparison is would be the perfect example.

[Jim Courtney]

I scored a #21 without stack, my idea is to install a Mc Connell stack.

So you got that one!

You could easily do what I'm planning, a 1900-1901 version of C&S 22:


From Kindig, et al, The Pictorial Supplement . . .

In the 1890s DL&G number 162 was rebuilt from its original "cold water" Brooks configuration to kinda match the Cooke 2-6-0s of that era. Note the injector, mounted ahead of the cab, with intake pipe coming directly off the steam dome.




From Kindig, et al, The Pictorial Supplement . . .

When the C&S was formed, the locomotive became C&S 22, shown on the Como roundhouse shortly after relettering.




Park County History Archives

Another view from about 1900-1901 in Como with friends.

Modeling this version of 22 will be challenging, but the guys at The Leadville Shops have done a lot of work for you in terms of castings  http://www.theleadvilleshops.com/164-details:
--The long wood pilot with deck braces
--The headlight bracket
--The McConnell stack (I'm working on assembling my first one now, 4 pieces, the base even has threads cast inside the hole to allow mounting on the smoke box (you'll have to cut the smoke box back to the rivet line on the model)
--The UP style tender trucks (the type B truck); otherwise the tender can be used as-is.

The UP box headlight is more of a challenge--I'm using one produced by Berlyn for their Mason Bogies from back in the 1990s.
The cab is the biggest problem, with the 4 vertical panels--I'll probably use one from The Leadville Shops NS etchings for the Cooke 2-8-0.

If you don't want to fool with the cab and box headlight, and like the "Colombine" emblem, you could build your model a couple of years later:


Ronfor Collection in Poole and Martin, Grandt's Narrow Gauge Pictorial VI

Number 22 is about to pass Keith's new roundhouse as it arrives in Leadville with the passenger from Denver, c1903.





You could keep the steel sheathed cab (with modifications), the air tank atop the boiler and likely use the arc headlight on the Overland model (or I could swap you one of an earlier style). By 1903, it looks like the long pilot has been replaced by one of the stubby wood pilots (also offered by TLS).

CDS at one time made dry transfer sets in S scale for the "Colombine" lettering scheme in white.  Should you choose to go this route, I may have a set to spare.


Looks to me like a great model building project.