Need info on early C&S inherited coal cars -- how were they numbered??

[Jim Courtney]

Dave,

I think that your explanations as to the delay in re-lettering the inherited C&S freight cars is well thought out and makes sense.

But there are a couple of other likely explanations. Certain types of cars were already scheduled for major shopping. Darrell Poole, in an old Outdoor Railroader article, chronicled the rebuilding of the 26' and 27' Tiffany reefers in 1902-1903. Derrell found documentation that as early as 1900, C&S management knew the Tiffany's were worn out and produced authorization for their rebuilding "when funds allow". A few of the cars in the best shape were re-lettered before the shopping, but since the rebuilding included a complete replacement of the exterior sheathing, it made no sense to re-letter the majority of the cars prior to shopping. So they trudged on with their UP lettering in what ever light color they were, until the rebuilding occurred. Photos of the 1901 Washington Spur wreck and the Riverview wreck of spring 1902 show them with light sides and UP (DL&G) lettering.

Management may have already allocated quite a few of the 24', 26' and 27' boxcars to be converted to outfit cars. Re-lettering may have waited until the actual conversion occurred.

Finally, just because cars are listed as still in their UPD&G/DL&G numbers in the ORERs, doesn't mean that they are in actual everyday use. In the case of the inherited coal cars, management was already preparing for the 1902 (phase 1) coal car building program, which would make the older cars, <30 foot in length, obsolete. Such cars, in the worst shape, may have been slowly moved over the months, and set out on weed grown sidings in Denver or Como, where they sat until stricken from the roster and scrapped.

Anyways, thanks to all for your thoughtful replies to my query. My three 27 foot cars are complete, detailed to my satisfaction and ready for the priming and painting:





These three cars will receive C&S lettering. But I still have a few more kits stashed away in the Sn3 closet. At least one will emerge heavily weathered with DL&G (Union Pacific) reporting marks and numbers . . .

[Dave Eggleston]

Those look fantastic, Jim.

Thanks for the additional thoughts on renumbering. I know there must be as many reasons for timing as there were extent cars at the time!

One final thought on cars listed but not in everyday use: in the days before you model, around 1894, the ORER lists a handful of cars lettered for the Colorado Central and the Kansas Central in the UPD&G section. These were cars that had been in use on the GSL&P but became stranded up the canyons after it was washed out in June 1894. For a couple of years these 5-6 box and coal cars show in the ORER, with no way out of the canyon and still lettered for whatever extinct railroad name/number they carried when sent to the GSL&P, dating back to 1884! I can only presume they were the best of the survivor cars along the line and that the UPD&G was considering ways to retrieve them.

[Chris Walker]

Paging Dr Courtney...

Two views from the Breckenridge History Archives






and how about an endview....

[Dave Eggleston]

Fantastic pictures.

I don't know if it's my eye playing tricks, but there's something to note about the lettering on the side sill: Does it wander off a straight baseline? It sure looks to creep up in places. Look at the "ern" of "Southern." "Colorado" seems to wander a bit when a straightedge is placed under it.

People would be snickering if that's how we laid out our decals and dry transfers!

[Chris Walker]

 Look at the "ern" of "Southern."

To my tired eyes Dave, it looks like the lettering is following the sagged Sidesill...as the rail below isn't.

[Dave Eggleston]

Could well be!

[drgwcs]

The great gondola experiment
OK this is at an early stage of possibility but with this popping up again thought I might share. I had a friend at our club printing up some wagons off designs in thingiverse and we happened to come across a file for an HOn3 "C&S"  gondola- it does scale out to a smidge under 27' and appears to be at least partially based on the earlier 27' cars. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7092232
He ran me a couple of samples that I am experimenting with and he is working on resizing to a 30' gon. There are some issues I am working through on them. The side board spacing is uneven on one end and that visually is the biggest issue. They have a couple pocket that is sized for a SG kadee- that still works if you use a scale head. (they will couple with 714's fine) It does align the trucks in a bit. The 3D trucks are a bit loose loose for Kadee wheel sets and do raise the couplers high. I am looking at different trucks and washers to get the height right. I am awaiting a resized sample probably in the next couple of weeks to see how that comes out for the longer phase ones. He was trying to correct the stake spacing too- his slicer was being a bit uncooperative though.


The stock 3D trucks make coupler height high even with the slightly taller SG scale head couplers.



The underframe- the 3D trucks use a large pin- I will use that pin mounted flush and drill a mounting hole.



For height purposes I think the Roundhouse trucks with the modified drilled pin or a a nylon washer look closest to get coupler height right so far- although they of course are not correct.