Leadville Roundhouse

[Keith Hayes]

As the turntable is more or less done, it seems appropriate to start a new topic with focus on the roundhouse.

The framing and sides are complete, And I have started framing the roof.


Now that we know the building was a red-brown during the 30s, I went ahead and painted the doors, windows and shop addition roday.
I did this in part so I can pre-glaze the windows, and add stall numbers to the doors (so I can more easily keep track of what goes where!). Fortunately, The C&S had Roman numerals on each door. These will also be a convenient prompt for operators, too.

...or...I can work on a temporary return loop scene at Climax to facilitate operations and use the helix frame.

[Paul R.]

Keith ,
I assume this roundhouse is timber, is there plans anywhere? Paul R.

[Chris Walker]

Just how many threads are you having on this Roundhouse build eh Keith?  

Did this one hit a wall or something? http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Leadville-Turntable-tp3691p6982.html

I am of the opinion that turntables and roundhouses go hand in hand and we can't discuss one without the other providing a distraction so why the changeover?

[Rick Steele]

The lack of changeover is more about picking nits than practicality.

The turntable in Leadville was the Sellers type of cast turntable as also found in Golden, Colorado.

The Roundhouse being modeled is a six stall replacement that was built in 1907 as a replacement for the original seven stall roundhouse.

Rick

[Chris Walker]

Rick,
are you meaning this one?  For some reason the smokejack spacing reflects 8 Stalls not that I see 8 jacks, was there a Shop bay?

About the Sellers table at Leadville, that was replaced at some time see http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Leadville-Turntable-tp3691p3703.html

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/728/rv/singleitem

[Jim Courtney]

Are you sure that's the C&S roundhouse, Chris?

In the un-cropped photo there appears to be a rail yard to the left of the roundhouse, with twin water tanks alongside.  I believe this might be the D&RG roundhouse and yard.





If so where is the C&S yard and roundhouse? Out of sight behind the hill to the right?

[Chris Walker]

Are you sure that's the C&S roundhouse, Chris?

Jim, I think that's why I asked Rick since I'm not sure.  From what I know of Leadville after the Fire the DSP&P built a new Roundhouse, I haven't read that the D&RG did the same, I've only seen pictures of an Enginehouse of rectangular form.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong please
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/723/rv/singleitem/rec/368



 And as usual I'm spread as thin these days like only one waiter at Dennys.

[Jim Courtney]

OK, Chris, I'm confused all over again.

I somehow did not notice that these two photos, likely taken the same day, were meant to be a panorama view of the southwest end of Leadville.

As to the structures you labled, I don't quite agree.

My 1918 C&S Valuation map of Leadville only shows C&S structures--D&RG structures are omitted. The C&S roundhouse of 1918 appears to have only 6 stalls, as Keith is modeling:





In the new Leadville book, Silver Rails, by Christopher James, the inside front binding page and fly page are a reproduction of a 1919 D&RG valuation map of the Leadville facilities, "corrected to 1927".

The structure that you identify as the D&RG engine house, is labeled on the map as the D&RG car repair shop:





Since the wide map runs through the gutter of the book, I couldn't scan it in toto. The right hand side of the map is interesting in that the roundhouses of both roads are depicted:





The C&S roundhouse at the bottom left corner is still depicted with 8 stalls. So, I suspect that the roundhouse in the first photo you posted is the C&S structure:





So, then, where is the D&RG roundhouse?? Is it possible that the camera angle is such that the D&RG roundhouse is exactly behind and below the C&S roundhouse, completely obscured?

Did the second D&RG roundhouse also burn or was otherwise abandoned, and the D&RG car shop later pressed into service as an engine house?

Seems to me that we need for some D&RG authorities, like Jimmy or Pat, too opine here! Perhaps Jimmy has a nice Leadville station map to share . . .

[Chris Walker]

Yes Jim I'm confused too..... but now certain that the Roundhouse in the first picture I posted is the C&S based on that the Stalls are facing Finntown, the D&RG(W) faced the West, was closer to the Water Tank and was at a slightly lower elevation than the DSP&P/DL&G/C&S.  If the D&RG Rdhse was there in the snowy photo it is most likely behind, not visible due the C&S Rdhse.

You are probably correct in stating what I have labeled the Enginehouse as being the carshop but my identification came from SG days with Diesels outside in 1960, a Jim Ozment picture (mis-captioned as Alamosa) pg104 in the Rio Grande in Color V-5.  Jim worked for the D&RGW at that time.  Also a number of SG steam loco pictures taken in Leadville show those stabled or stored at that rectangular building.

Again my confusion comes from not knowing how long the D&RG roundhouse existed for?  Since the fire was 1884 I'd say it was rebuilt until not needed, the carshop then becoming the loco palace. http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/77076/rec/201

The great D&RG map you have posted shows the C&S Roundhouse 8th stall as being serviced directly by the approach roads apparently that stall was amputated at some time since the later images show the tracks "differently".  There also was an Office added which altered the profile somewhat just to add confusion.

[Jim Courtney]

Also a number of SG steam loco pictures taken in Leadville show those stabled or stored at that rectangular building.

Maybe these??

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/92718/rec/739



The little standard gauge switcher seems to have been left out in the snow!


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/79783/rv/singleitem/rec/477




Perhaps Keith should consider extending his Leadville a foot or so into the aisle, and adding some S scale standard gauge / 3-rail! For a standard gauge locomotive, little 634 is pretty cool!

[Chris Walker]

Maybe these??

Yeah Jim,  I was just keeping it in house C&Sn3

[Chris Walker]

FWIW dept:  The D&RGW System Official Roster #11 1923 lists this:   Engine Houses_Leadville_Stalls_S.G._9_Stalls_N.G._2

[Jim Courtney]

That fits the 11 stall D&RG roundhouse drawing on the map I posted perfectly.

I suspect that until the 3rd rail to Salida was taken up in 1925, a couple of narrow gauge engines remained in Leadville to switch narrow gauge cars into the various spurs in Leadville, maybe transfer those narrow gauge interchange cars Pat Student described up to the C&S yard.

In reading the new Silver Rails book, it appears that the D&RG narrow gauge and 3-rail trackage up to the mines above Leadville (to Ibex and Graham Park) had already been standard gauged by 1917.  Ore from these branches remained a significant source of traffic well into the late 1930s, early 1940s, so the D&RG retained several small Standard gauge 2-8-0's in Leadville to work these branches.

When Otto Perry visited Leadville in the 1930s, as the C&S was abandoning through Denver-Leadville operations, he wandered over to the D&RG yards and photographed several of these 600 series locomotives:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/47555/rec/25
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/47560/rec/27
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/47559/rec/26


I suspect back in the first decade and early teens, there where quite a few more narrow gauge stalls in the D&RG roundhouse, to accommodate quite a few narrow gauge class 60 and class 70 engines, to power the Blue River branch trains to Dillon, the narrow gauge branches up above Leadville on the Chrysolite extension and 3-rail trackage into the Arkansas Valley Smelter.


Rather than further hijack Keith's new thread (hasn't really stopped us before has it), I'd love to see knowledgeable folks like Jimmy Blouch, Bob Stears and Pat Student open a thread describing D&RG operations in Leadville, both narrow gauge and standard gauge. It may not be "C&Sn3", but it would complete the understanding of the C&S at Leadville.

[Jimmy Blouch]

I do have information pertaining to Rio Grande structures in Leadville.
However, even though it has been 3 years since moving, a lot of my material is still packed away
It will take some time but I will try to get some info posted.

Jimmy

[Keith Hayes]

You guys are forever distracting me.

FWIW, Chris, a turntable and roundhouse are not always paired: case in point the current situation in Leadville. As the turntable and pit is mostly done, I am turning now to the Roundhouse as a separate model that seemed worthy of its own thread. Easier for me to search, in any case.

The end papers of Silver Rails are full of information regarding the track layout. I am not sure exactly what happened to the early D&RGW turntable and roundhouse (about where the Safeway is located today), but locomotives seemed to overnight in the former car shop, which is were Richardson and Perry found these awfully small consolidations. Looks like one wintered in Leadville--not exactly a sunbird. This was the building located west of the D&RGW freight house (now located in Stringtown at the Smelter site) which was just south of the I (love) Leadville platform on the north end of town.

Rick, I am not sure what happened to the Sellers bridge. I used a Diamond model for my bridge and was in enough of a hurry that I just went ahead and used the Diamond girder in lieu of making my own Sellers girders from measurements of yours I found somewhere on the Interweb. The image of 74 clearly shows a girder bridge, and there is a photo of the Sellers bridge on the ground east of the pit.

It would be nice if Messrs Stears, Blouch and Student would edjumacate us on Leadville operations of all the railroads.

[Chris Walker]

FWIW, Chris, a turntable and roundhouse are not always paired: case in point the current situation in Leadville.

That would only be a product of the Diesel era, Keith.  Otherwise the steam locomotives would reside in a rectangular Enginehouse as a Wye is less maintenance than a turntable.

[Keith Hayes]

Methinks standard gauge steam did the deed in this instance.

I need to root about and find my styrene and add some more rafters so I can post a photo of more progress.

[Chris Walker]

Are you sure that's the C&S roundhouse, Chris?

Jim,  and Keith....  and Rick....

When I initially posted, I had a recollection of photographs showing two Roundhouses in Denver and Gunnison and I also thought there was a view taken of Leadville as well....which I couldn't find....

I can't find the link at this time but I'm certain it is in the DPL. EDIT: link below.


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/41189/rv/singleitem/rec/763


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/83038/rv/singleitem/rec/3

[Jim Courtney]

And here is an 1890's photo of the D&RG Car Shop, when it was used as a car shop:



Charles R. Osgood photo, in Digerness, The Mineral Belt, Volume I, page 346.



View is to the northwest, from the ore loading platforms just southwest of the depot, freight house and car shops. Note the four tall chimneys, at the corners, that survived to the 1950's (or later).

Looks like a diamond-stacked class 60 or 70 locomotive is spotting a boxcar in the shop for repairs.

[Pat Student]

Jim

Photo would be no earlier than 1898 based on year built for D&RG 9313

Pat