Kokomo

[Chris Walker]

Better get this beauty in here then....


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/38704/rv/singleitem/rec/53

[Todd Hackett]

Jim Courtney wrote

...I have always assumed "Recen" was south of Kokomo, on the hillside...I will go back and edit my earlier comments...

I assume the earlier comment was the one challenging me to explain where I got the town name information shown on my map. You must have edited it while I was compiling the following sources. I created the map over 5 years ago, so I don't remember all of my sources, but these are from a couple of scanned maps I was able to find.

USGS topo map based on an 1880-1882 survey (this is just a small part of the map plus the survey and edition info from the lower right corner of the map:


ICC map with town labels enlarged:

[Jim Courtney]

You had it correct all along, Todd, I was the one confused.  Advancing age does that!

Thanks for posting the additional maps, they add even more to a complete picture of Kokomo on this thread.

[Jeff Young]

I’ve always wondered about the Kokomo Walsh smelter.  The comments that go with the picture say it’s “probably in Ouray County".  But that’s D&RG / RGS country, and those cars clearly say Colorado & Southern.  So I assume the comment is just out to lunch?

Given the presumption that it’s actually in 10-mile-canyon, in the vicinity of Kokomo, anyone know where?

[Chris Walker]

Jeff Young wrote

And here was me just wondering if that water tank had an octagonal roof or a conical one. ;)

Nice 3-way stub in the foreground there too….

Cheers,
Jeff

PS: can anyone tell from the other angle (posted earlier) if the frostbox is on the front of that water tank or in the center?  It looks like the front to me, but the picture is awful grainy when you get up close….

Jeff,  
The Question to ask: Was the D&RG tank rebuilt to the modern style and retained for use given they gave up operating that line very early on.  In all the pictures, I can't say it's visible in later years, maybe someone else will post a picture of the later days as the D&RG tank of this period should be more like this.


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/6475/rv/singleitem/rec/27
Compare the enlargements.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/9187/rv/singleitem/rec/38

But the Tank takes on a different appearance at the Base in this previously posted view: Note the UPD&G (C&S) tank at this time is also of the lower structure enclosed type.
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/12391/rv/singleitem/rec/145

[Jeff Young]

Good question, Chris.

In this (1929) picture, I believe the old C&S grade coming into town is about where I’ve drawn the yellow line.  The old depot would be in the red circle (whether or not the building currently there is the same is open to question), and the water tank should be somewhere in the blue circle.  Zooming in shows no water tank.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/9189/rec/13

On my layout I need my D&RGW and C&S tracks to actually connect, so I’m going to keep the C&S “downtown" spur and have it connect to the D&RGW.  The plan was to also keep the D&RG depot and water tank so D&RGW trains passing through have a place to stop (inaccurate as it is).  However, that’s no reason to abandon documentary evidence all-together, so I think the safest assumption is that the tank was never rebuilt and should be the “old” style with an enclosed base.

At least until someone posts a picture showing otherwise. ;)

Cheers,

Jeff.

[Chris Walker]

Here's yet another undated shot, looks like the D&RG tracks are complete in the foreground, with a blurry C&S train working up the valley.


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/11988/rv/singleitem/rec/61


This one has D&RG cars but no Schoolhouse on the hill.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/11994/rv/singleitem/rec/1



http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/11997/rv/singleitem/rec/5

One of the Robinson Depot and the Smelters in the background.


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll21/id/3742/rec/76

[Jeff Young]

He he… I was just about to post the exact same zoom of that snow-covered one with the overpass trestle (and snowshed) in the background and the “downtown” grade trestle in the middle ground.

Cheers,
Jeff.

[Jeff Young]

Hmmm… go back to the tight zoom showing the three-way stub.  Whatever the water tank is standing on is smaller than the tank itself (you can see the ground under the base of the spout).

Does that imply a cross-braced stand, or were the enclosed bases sometimes smaller than the tank?

Jeff.

[Chris Walker]

The "Modern" style of Tank with the Frostbox within the supporting posts seems to be applicable to both roads around 1900 onwards, saying that on what I've seen in pictures without commiting the dates to memory.  Not knowing the dates is problematic, the DPL vauge most of the entries and like you say "out to lunch" on a few locations as well {:))  Still I am so greatful for the DPL digitization resource.

[Jim Courtney]

Jeff,

It's not clear whether the D&RG tank was every "modernized", or how long after 1910 it remained standing.  Chris, is correct though; usually the external structures around the support posts disappeared by 1890-1900, with the smaller frost boxes thereafter within the supporting posts.  Did that happen to the D&RG tank in Kokomo?  Who knows, unless someone's holding out a photo from us--and if Chris hasn't found it, it's likely not out there.

But since you're modeling a hypothetical prolongation of D&RG operations on the Blue River Branch, into the 1930s, don't you think the D&RG-->D&RGW would have updated it by then?

BTW, if your "Kokomo" issue of the CNGQ doesn't show up, I do have a copy in my files, along with the beautiful 1/4" scale drawings of the little depot by Chris Lane.  Let me know and I will make you  a copy.

[Chris Walker]

More food for though {:))


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/11985/rv/singleitem/rec/2

[Robert McFarland]

Chris,could you post the left side of the second photo please?

[Robert McFarland]

Were any photos ever taken of the switchback?

[Chris Walker]

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/7138/rv/singleitem/rec/43

[Jeff Young]

On 16 Mar 2015, at 02:55, Jim Courtney [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Who knows, unless someone's holding out a photo from us--and if Chris hasn't found it, it's likely not out there. 

He he… just had to give him more time.  ;)

That last photo shows diagonal cross-bracing under the level indicator on the tank.  I suppose there’s some small chance that’s foreground detail from the roof in front of the tank, but it seems unlikely.  Can’t tell if the frostbox is in the middle or the front, though.

If you pan over to the right in that photo (and back off the zoom just a hair), you’ll also notice that the C&S depot is gone, which dates the photo to post-1913.

So that’s a money-shot for my purposes.

Cheers,

Jeff.

PS: I’ve have queried the Denver library to see if they have any interest in receiving corrections to the ephemera for these photographs.  I’ll let folks know if I receive a positive reply….

[Robert McFarland]

Thats perfect!!Thank you!!

[Robert McFarland]

Underneath the photo in the information section are two columns for posting comments and corrections.

[Jeff Young]

Indeed it does.  I’ve added comments to a couple of the photos we’ve been discussing.

Cheers,

Jeff.

On 16 Mar 2015, at 16:45, Robert McFarland [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Underneath the photo in the information section are two columns for posting comments and corrections. 

[Jeff Young]

FWIW, I did receive a reply from the Denver Library, and they are interested in getting any corrections.

My contact is Coi at [hidden email] .

I’ve forwarded 3 corrections: Kokomo Walsh smelter location given incorrectly as Ouray County, location of “downtown” Kokomo spur mistakenly being stated as Robinson, and a too-early date on the “teenager in a hat” photo.

Cheers,

Jeff.