Ice Trains

[John McCutcheon]

I was rereading the section on ice trains in the book Platte Canon Memories and More and had some questions on these operations. Since all C&S freights were extras and if it was a west bound train leaving on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday these would of been a three to four engine freight. My question was this a mixed with regular freight and a block of emty dropped off along the line or were these trips straight to certain sidings only and if so where were the engines turned or were they run in reverse till they got to Pine. Just trying to figure out about C&S operations as this business created a lot of traffic in the winter and is not modeled.  

[ComoDepot]

Engine No 9 film shows ice operations.

I would imagine it depends on when and where the ice was obtained, most of the detail I have seen relates to the later operations above Bailey, and it seems that they pressed every car they had into service.

Other times, other locations were no doubt operated differently.

[Rick Steele]

John,

If all C&S freights were operated as extra's, there is nothing stopping the railroad from running trains as needed to service the ice harvest in the South Platte Canyon area.

From what I understand the most prolific producers were Maddox (named after Maddox Ice Company in Denver), Crystal Lake (a holdover from the DL&G days, probably renamed), Altruria (MP59.24) shows an artificial lake, as does Singleton (MP 62.5), The artificial lakes stop short of the climb from Webster up Kenosha Pass.

According to the ICC abandonment reports, during the last years of the South Park Line, the Largest commodity, in terms of tonnage, was Ice.

The tonnage stated would necessitate more trains run than the tri-weekly freight. I am convinced that during ice season that the C&S ran extras to the ice fields and back as short turn-arounds for the crews. They could have used the small wye in Grant to turn their locomotives, or run back and turned at Waterton as the cars were being loaded.

Rick

[Jim Courtney]

IMHO,  the most compact and "modelegenic" ice facility in Platte Canon was Haviland (MP 45.1), with its twin ice storage houses:




According to Poor, the ice houses were served by a 355 foot spur; the 1918 ICC valuation map shows the siding in place inside the curve, but the switch to the main being disconnected.

I've found no reference that ice harvested at Haviland was shipped to Denver. It may have been a harvesting and storage operation to provide ice to the various resorts between South Platte and Grant, during the summer vacation seasons.

I agree with Rick. The photos in the Klingers' book show two locomotives handling a long string of boxcars at Maddox, with no indication they will then proceed west bound. The C&S number 9 black and white film footage shows ice harvesting and loading at Maddox. The string of empty box cars are periodically re-spotted at the loading platforms by the use of a Ford model-A truck, pushing at one corner of a box car. So each ice harvest may have required two extras out of Denver, first to deliver a long string of empties for loading, a second to retrieve the loaded cars of ice, to haul them back to the Denver ice houses.

And yes, the locomotives were likely backed down to Pine (less than 3 miles), where they were turned on the wye, before hauling the train on down to Denver.

[Chris Walker]

Don't forget Riverview.... http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Dam-I-HaveThat-All-Washed-Out-Feeling-tp1528.html

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/72080

[Robert McFarland]

Didn't Pitkin have some small ice dams?

[Rick Steele]

By the time of abandonment, Pitkin would have been non-C&S trackage.

Rick

[Robert McFarland]

What about 1899-1910 or before? I seem to remember some people  talking about ice being harvested at Lake Como.

[ComoDepot]

Certainly was harvested out of Lake Como, there were some winters when it was not cold enough to operate at lower levels.

I assume Ice Houses were in most places, there was certainly a fairly substantial one in Como.

Now how they did it I do not know, presumably moved it by horse and cart.

[Chris Walker]

River

Please can you have a look at your 1918 Val.Map for the Riverview Siding, Poor doesn't mention any dates as to cessation of trackage, only length etc.

[Rick Steele]

The map shows Riverview at MP 39.0. Between Buffalo Tank and Buffalo... There are no Ice Ponds or "Artificial Lakes" that show up in close proximity to the tracks. The notation says "Narrow Canyon Sheer Rock Walls".

The siding, Tr. No. 1 1014.8 ft. is shown. See Page 66 of Tom Klinger's Book C&S Platte Canon Memories & Then Some

Rick

[Chris Walker]

Thanks Rick,

then the L.C.McLure photos predate the C&S Valuation, the two that show the dam on Buffalo Cr. washed out.  I had the feeling those were mid-20's for some reason, no idea what led me to that conclusion.

[Rick Steele]

To be honest Chris,

McClure's photos could actually Post-Date the valuation as McClure didn't die until 1935. The Valuation was done in 1917 and published between 1918 and 1920.

But that stack would have to have a Ridgway Spark Arrestor.

Rick