Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

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Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Tundracamper
According to an AI search, railroads in the 1880s primarily used fixed/mounted oil or kerosene lamps in engine houses, just prior to the introduction of electric lamps.

Would this have been typical for locations like Como or Alpine, with several lanterns mounted or hanging on the walls?
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Mike Trent
Administrator
There is at least one photo taken inside the Como Roundhouse during the period when the stone roundhouse was being used as a machine shop, and the large wood addition served as the carpenter shop and locomotive storage that appears to show a large Arc style light with a large reflector in use.

I can't seem to find it, maybe someone here remembers it.

As has been reported previously, the only electric light ever in use in Como until abandonment in 1937 was in the roundhouse boiler room. Como itself was apparently one of the last areas in the Country to go "on the grid".  
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Todd Hackett
Mike Trent wrote
There is at least one photo taken inside the Como Roundhouse during the period when the stone roundhouse was being used as a machine shop, and the large wood addition served as the carpenter shop and locomotive storage that appears to show a large Arc style light with a large reflector in use....
These are the only interior photos from that time I can think of. These are from George Champion. There's a big stove and some machinery with overhead drive belts, but the only light sources I see are the windows in the doors and the gaps around the doors. I don't doubt that there were some sort of lanterns, but I don't see those in these photos.
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Tundracamper
So, I see pulleys powering the machines. Would the master pulley “motor” be steam - or electric?  If the latter, that would seem to be a driving factor. Still, seems like in the 1880s, lanterns would likely be a source of interior lighting. I didn’t see an approximate date for those photos. Thx for posting them!
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Todd Hackett
Tundracamper wrote
...Would the master pulley “motor” be steam - or electric? ...
I'm pretty sure it would have been a steam engine driven with steam from the boiler in the boiler house. They probably had a small locomotive dynamo also powered from that steam to generate the electric power for the light in the boiler house that Mike mentioned.
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Tundracamper
Todd Hackett wrote
Tundracamper wrote
...Would the master pulley “motor” be steam - or electric? ...
I'm pretty sure it would have been a steam engine driven with steam from the boiler in the boiler house. They probably had a small locomotive dynamo also powered from that steam to generate the electric power for the light in the boiler house that Mike mentioned.
Ah, locally generated electricity. Hadn’t even considered that. Makes sense!
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Dave Eggleston
In reply to this post by Tundracamper
I am unaware of any photos that exist of the interior of the Alpine shed, other than some glimpses through the doors or windows. Alpine had tall windows and skylights at the start of operations. The skylights disappeared over time and the windows in some cases were boarded up for various reasons. There likely was some form of lanterns that were hung inside as needed--possibly hand lanterns or even headlights. But what exactly remains to be discovered. Another question is just how the shed was used in different periods, which would also affect what lighting was required.

Take AI summaries with a grain of salt. AI only knows what it has learned from scanning the available data on the internet. As seen in this group, there is a great deal of information that isn't online, both source and interpreted knowledge. And of course there is a ton of partial or just bad information online. I take AI searches, because they are increasingly forced on us, as a starting point at best.

The AI companies are now resorting to buying books, including historic books. They're cutting off the covers and unbinding them to scan and apparently tossing them out once done. I was just in Mt Vernon, Washington, at an excellent bookstore that regularly buys collections of RR books. They are looking into ways to identify these orders and limit these sales in the future.
Dave Eggleston
Seattle, WA
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Tundracamper
Dave Eggleston wrote
I am unaware of any photos that exist of the interior of the Alpine shed, other than some glimpses through the doors or windows. Alpine had tall windows and skylights at the start of operations. The skylights disappeared over time and the windows in some cases were boarded up for various reasons. There likely was some form of lanterns that were hung inside as needed--possibly hand lanterns or even headlights. But what exactly remains to be discovered. Another question is just how the shed was used in different periods, which would also affect what lighting was required.

Take AI summaries with a grain of salt. AI only knows what it has learned from scanning the available data on the internet. As seen in this group, there is a great deal of information that isn't online, both source and interpreted knowledge. And of course there is a ton of partial or just bad information online. I take AI searches, because they are increasingly forced on us, as a starting point at best.

The AI companies are now resorting to buying books, including historic books. They're cutting off the covers and unbinding them to scan and apparently tossing them out once done. I was just in Mt Vernon, Washington, at an excellent bookstore that regularly buys collections of RR books. They are looking into ways to identify these orders and limit these sales in the future.
All good points. The Alpine engine shed seems to be surrounded by so much mystery.

As for training AI by purchasing a single copy of a text that someone spent a great deal of time and money to publish for AI to then profit… not a big fan of that. But, that is tangential to the thread.

Guess I just need to see if any of my books and magazines have photos of the engine shed inside. If only I had a scanned copy!  😂  Actually, I started scanning Poor’s book for my own personal use. What a tedious process using a phone!
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Dave Eggleston
There are only two photos technically showing the inside I can think of: the image showing the collapsed structure after the 1906 fire and the image showing the structure being built before there was a roof on it. No much to answer your question there. Otherwise, a few glimpses into the west end door and it's mighty dark in there.

Pretty much beyond that is conjecture based on the ruins and a few newspaper articles and source documents.

Also, be aware the structure's interior contents changed over time. The water tank and the coal dock were there from the start. The turntable pit was there and there are long and debated conversations on exactly when a turntable was placed inside. Around 1890 two structures were placed inside to house workers and provide a kitchen/dining. These changes would've affected the lighting situation, as did the early removal of skylights.


Dave Eggleston
Seattle, WA
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Chris Walker
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Tundracamper
Tundracamper wrote
...Would the master pulley “motor” be steam - or electric? ...


Ah, locally generated electricity. Hadn’t even considered that. Makes sense!
DSP&P days? So when did DL&G/C&S first electrify the loco headlights; that I'd be looking for.  Oil lamps for sure; Kero too.
UpSideDownC
in New Zealand
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Todd Hackett
Chris Walker wrote
DSP&P days? So when did DL&G/C&S first electrify the loco headlights; that I'd be looking for.  Oil lamps for sure; Kero too.
Loco headlights appear to still use flames (probably kerosene, but some may have been acetylene) in the early C&S days, so DL&G/UPD&G probably didn't have any electrified locomotive headlights. The dynamos and conduits into the converted headlights seem to roughly coincide with the cone spark arrestors, with some electric headlights showing up soon after. This article indicates that while arc headlights were in use previously, the first reliable incandescent lights that could handle the vibrations of a locomotive came out in 1913. I couldn't find any good images of the early arc lights (not that I spent much time looking), but the style that I've heard people call arc headlights look like the acetylene headlights:
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Re: Building lighting for early1880s DSP&P

Chris Walker
Derrell Pooles Mogul Month on the http://coloradosouthern.blogspot.com/
Dr. Jim Courtney's Locomotive articles on http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/
Use the SEARCH on here; best engine on a board I've ever used.
Actual Thread on the Headlight subject; http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/arc-headlights-and-dynamos-tp15165.html
UpSideDownC
in New Zealand