former C&S stock car 7104

[Mike McKenzie]

Hey everybody!

I'm researching D&RGW MoW cable and tie car 07407, which was rebuilt from former C&S stock car 7104 (RGS 7407, thus the number) after a wreck on Marshall pass. 07407 was part of the D&RGW's Salida wreck train. The rebuild retained the steel underframe but added new side sills and end beams.

My C&S related question is about 07407's striker and likely draft gear. The rebuild apparently did not incorporate the existing typical stock car striker (as far as I know) but used a different style I've seen on C&S flats. See photos...



C&S flat 4511 at Leadville 1941 from NGP VIII, Best Collection, CSRM. Love that coupler lift bar...




D&RGW 07407 at Salida 1955 from the Dorman Collection, R.W. Richardson photo

As far as I can tell they're the same style striker. My question is do we know what this style of striker and it's associated draft gear is called and are there drawings perhaps? If I knew the style of the draft gear I could probably find reference to it online or in an old car cyclopedia. I don't find reference to this striker in the drawings I have, Derrell's C&S Connection and Ron Runick's DSP&P modeling guide. The drawings that exist for 07407 don't detail the draft gear but do show the striker somewhat clearly. It seems like kind of an oddball and I'm surprised to find it on the 07407, but I'd like to make as accurate a drawing as I can, at least make the most informed guesses anyway.

Thanks for any help...

Mike McKenzie

[Derrell Poole]

First of all, I'm having trouble figuring out how the tie car 07404 retained a steel under frame. The SUF mounted with cross arms that were bolted to the under side of a 7" side sills. The sills on 07404 appears much more like that of a Type I truss rod car. Those sills were something like 12" high (iirc). The SUF cars road 26" above the rail. Their body bolsters were adapted to BAC (Bettendorf Axle Co.) Class F2 cast narrow gauge trucks. The truck visible under 0740 is clearly an archbar - much like a Type I ASF truck. The Type I car had a cast body bolster and those cars (bottom of  side sills) rode 21" above the rail.

As far as the strikes on SUF cars the first were the 500 series reefers Built Dec. 1908 - Feb. 1909. They used the striker introduced by the 1908 build of Type II cars. This was C&S pattern FM-132 equal to W.H. Miner Co. D-725. The draft gear was W.H. Miner Co. which included a number of patterns. By the summer of 1909 when the next set of SUF cars were built the strikers had changed to the style you see on 7104. Unfortunately that pattern is not listed on any of the drawings I am aware that I have. I would have to dig in the dusty old files to see if there is something more.

My suggestion is to explore Bettendorf and Miner company files for the period surrounding 1908 - 10. Or MCB volumes during that period. I would also suggest you see if Grandt Line Products have any info on file since they are the most accurate originators of the plastic mold injection SUFs for O, S and HO scales kits. PBL uses the OMI molds which originated with GL. Anything to the contrary, by proof, I stand correct - since this is just a cursory investigation.    

[Derrell Poole]

I just noticed the bolts thru the side sill of 07404 holding what could very well be a double plate bolster. Further doubt to the SUF under this car...

[Mike McKenzie]

Good information and definitely food for thought. The only drawings of 07407 I know of are by Werner Kampfen from an old Gazette and as drawn it depicts a SUF, which only means that's how it was drawn, not that that is truly what was there. No truss rods, though, that's for sure. Will need to look into this further, but have to run... Will post another photo later.

Thanks,
Mike

[Mike McKenzie]

Scanned a more complete image of 07407. The drawing from the Grandt Line SUF kit matches up with the Kempfen drawing in regards to the bolts on the side sills and SUF cross members.



Photo purchased from the Dorman Collection, Friends of the Cumbres & Toltec, Robert W. Richardson, Salida May 1955

I don't know how tightly integrated the original SUF bolster was to the rest of the frame, I'd imagine pretty tight, but perhaps a double strap bolster replaced the original? While such speculation is somewhat above my pay grade and it's just my humble opinion, but I believe 07407 does have a steel underframe. There's an AFE listing the car as built 1944 from RGS stock car 7407.

While I think 07407 was indeed built from a former steel underframe C&S stock car, it does seem like a pretty strange duck. Ah, narrow gauge, whadya gonna do?

Mike

[Derrell Poole]

The 5" intermediate and center sills of the wooden part of the "composite frame" of 7104 rested on top of the cross arms and bolster. The ends of the cross arms and bolster were "L" shaped so that the 7" side sill rested inside the "L".  It's possible the original stringers
were replaced with some really beefy wood - 9 and 11 inch? and the whole SUF was dropped down to use the lower slung archbar? I cannot tell from the photo if the end bracket of the SUF cross members were bolted to the bottom edge of this side sill.

Which begs the question - WHY? Was this car made to take extreme loads to have added that beefy sill? Or was this done to accommodate the low slung  archbar truck. Lots of head scratchin' here... Oh wait - its the eeeev-ville empire.... riiiiiight....