Reefer madness

[Jeff Young]

My version of reefers; 1920's.

#1109 is still wearing its 1907 block lettering, but was re-numbered in 1912.  It's definitely next into the car shops to get its new button herald.

#1113 has seen a season or two on its new paint job.









Cheers,
Jeff.

[Bill Uffelman]

Thanks for sharing your excellent woek.

Bill Uffelman

Ocean View DE

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 7:32 AM, Jeff Young [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

My version of reefers; 1920's.

#1109 is still wearing its 1907 block lettering, but was re-numbered in 1912.  It's definitely next into the car shops to get its new button herald.

#1113 has seen a season or two on its new paint job.









Cheers,
Jeff.

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NAML

[South Park]

  Jeff,

  Let's see a close up of those pole tops.  Excellent detail !

[Jeff Young]

Thanks, Bill!

Espee, I'm afraid this is all I have at the moment:



Cheers,
Jeff.

[Jeff Young]

And the obligatory "what colour is that reefer?" shot:



Cheers,
Jeff.

[Oldbear52]

Jeff: could they be grey? Lol😝

[Oldbear52]

Since I am a newbie to this rr. What doe SUF stand for when it comes to a C&S reefer?

[Bill Uffelman]

Steel Under Frame from Bettendorf.

Bill Uffelman 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Oldbear52 [via C&Sng Discussion Forum]

<[hidden email]> wrote:

Since I am a newbie to this rr. What doe SUF stand for when it comes to a C&S reefer?

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[Jeff Young]

Yep, as Bill said.

There’s a good thread on the three “modern” phases of cars here:

http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/How-long-did-C-amp-S-boxcars-stay-in-service-td3293.html

Cheers,

Jeff.

[Jim Courtney]

Jeff,

You're setting a dangerous modeling precedent here.  Now, if any of us build a layout or module, we'll have to include correct poles and insulators, of correct shape and color, to pass muster with South Park.

Beautiful work as always! Too bad you're in Ireland . . . I'd love to visit your layout.

Jim

[Jeff Young]

We've got a guest bedroom waiting for you, Jim.

Cheers,
Jeff.

[Oldbear52]

I will second that opinion by Jim.
Jim what would be next correct copper wire color? 😝 And Jeff: thanks for your reply. Seesh Sincan be so dense at times. I would also venture a guess that there are SUF boxes and stock cars? And flats too? I know there are kits for them just how common were they I the era Inintend to model 1920-1925? Which were most common on the road? Truss or steel frame?
As a certian tabloid says:  "enquiring minds want to know"
Oldbear (akaFred)!

[Jeff Young]

Hi Fred,

Have a glass of Scotch and sit down and read that thread I sent a link to.  It's specifically about what kind of mix of cars one would expect (and as a happy coincidence, I model a fairly similar period).

But yes, all the "modern" cars shared the same features for each generation.  However, the mix between boxcars/coalcars/etc. for each generation varied.

(Bottom line, you'll want more truss coal cars than SUF, and more SUF boxcars than truss.  Flatcars and reefers were rare enough that their mixes are less important.  In the early 20s you'll want no button heralds -- the flats will be in the button herald lettering scheme, but don't have room for any herald.  Most of your cars will be block lettered, with perhaps 10 - 20% of them still sporting earlier lettering styles.)

Cheers,
Jeff.

[Oldbear52]

Jeff:
Thanks for the scotch. In return I leave  you three fingers of the last of my Bushmills.
I love that link. I will read it throughly and then I will order some appropriate devlcwls from Leadville.
Modeling the era of the early to mid '20's is not too restrictive for me.
I do have a question. (Yes a bit off topic) I have an MMI C19 of the type the C&S leased from the grande. When did they lease them? Or can I use  poetic license as to when they were leased.
Oldbear

[Jim Courtney]

OB,

See the new thread I just started about the D&RGW C-19s. Let's keep this thread about "Reefers".

(I prefer single malts, Oban is my favorite)

[South Park]

  Thanks for the poletop detail shot.  You accomplished a pretty accurate look.
Hard to do at that size.  When I modeled, certain kit suppliers were first beginning
to think pole construction through and sell some great looking stuff in HO (and
perhaps other scales ?).  The seed beads were a great idea, but to my amusement,
the kits came with single colors.  It would be highly unusual for a telegraph line
to carry all the same insulator, as circuits were added and broken glass replaced.
Same for power and larger telephone builds.

  Intersting that you chose purple glass, as the R.Good, Western Flint Glass, and
Western Glass Mfg plant (served BY the South Park line) at Valverde covered
Colorado in a high amount of purple glass that was not seen to such a degree
around most parts of the country.

  Is that line meant to be RR telegraph or phone ?  I have never found "Denver"
glass along the old SP ROW's, but photos between Dillon and Climax show beehives
that are either W.G.M.Co. made, or H.G. CO. Petticoats (hard to tell in B/W photos),
but the phone lines all over Colorado were plastered with "Denver" glass.

  Great work.  Just how I liked my modeling to look when I was "in the biz".  

[Jeff Young]

Yeah, I got some grey beads too so I could mix it up a bit, but they had slightly smaller holes and wouldn’t fit on my wires.  I couldn’t find transparent blue or green.

I’ve got some cross-arms cast in clear plastic that I’m going to paint with transparent blue and green paints.  They’ll be used for the telegraph going past Jefferson and Kokomo.

The photographed line (Silica) doesn’t follow the railroad, so I don’t think it’s telegraph, but I don’t know if it is telephone or power.

Cheers,
Jeff.

[South Park]

  Strung on sidepins like that, it was not power.

  What gauge is your wire ?  The wifeperson is a beader.  I can
get you any color you like.

  Here is a purple color run of CD 106 WGM CO's.  These were
typically found on single circuit leads like the one you built.
the darkness of the purple is caused by an excessive amount of
manganese used to decolorize the glass from the iron oxides that
made most insulators some color of aqua.  When first pressed,
they were a light yellow color, but with UV exposure, the color
turned to purple.  Some believe the darkness is a result of how
much sun exposure they got, but this is not so.  In direct sunlight,
all change happened within 12 months to a point of the chemical
balance of the glass.

[Konrad Schreier]

Hi - new here but wanted to contribute to the discussion.  Those are some great looking cars!

Speaking of the "what color is that reefer" question, following the various threads on the colors of C&S reefers (I have an On3 rebuilt Tiffany car in construction) led me to wonder why the colors were so odd looking based on the consensus the cars were yellow, which led me to look a threads on old black and white film stock and how it affected perceived color.

Basically, in the first part of the 20th century b&w film stock used various Othochromatic emulsions.  These tend to overemphasize blues and are insensitive to reds and to a greater or lesser extent, yellows.  As a result, red, orange and strong yellow will photograph as darker, and sometimes as very dark grey tones, sometimes close to the tone registered for blacks!  I believe this is why the turn of the century images of the as built SUF, St. Charles and rebuilt Tiffany cars look so dark.  They weren't mineral brown, they were yellow, but when photographed in b&w with orthochromatic film, their yellow sides registered as nearly the same tone as the black lettering.  This same issue with yellows and reds showing as very dark tones in old black and white photographs plagues military and aircraft historians when they are trying to interpret old photos.

There is a lot out there on this in photography sites, but essentially the dark appearance of the yellow car sides in the early images is a quirk of the orthochromatic film stock.  Panchromatic film, which registers reds and yellows more accurately and shows yellows as a much lighter shade as a result, became commonly available in the 1920s.  Hence the later images of SUF cars are much more consistent with our expectations, in terms of the yellow tone as registered in grey scale.

Sorry for the long post but I thought it might be helpful,

Konrad

[Jeff Young]

Hi Konrad, welcome to the site!

Derrell Poole posted some very similar conclusions to yours, but I think it was over on the blog side of the site (rather than the forums).

Here it is:
http://coloradosouthern.blogspot.ie/2014/02/1927-reefers-not-what-you-expected.html

Cheers,
Jeff.