Pacific Hotel photo of 1886

[John Droste]

Would somebody help me please?
I wish to study in detail the photo of the Pacific Hotel.
I know that the one in the Greg Kazel excursion four collection is a very poor file and can not be expanded very far.

I know what I am looking for. I just need a very good image to bring it up. So I can show you guys something.

Thanks,
John

[Jeff Ramsey]

Here is one that is a original cabinet card.

[John Droste]

Jeff, Thank you but the photo although good, is not good enough.
Years ago now, I was able to download the image file of the Hotel and bring up the North wall of the depot in detail. Above the fence and looking through the veranda fretwork could be seen the glazing bars on one of the depot windows. Thats how good the image came up. But it was not that which interested me, it was the wall which clearly was covered in timber shingles or tiles, same as is on the depot roof today.
I wanted everyone to get a good look at that because I wish to discuss the fact that it was tiled with the overall history of the depot in relation to the hotel. I am still a little confused about this for I seem to have some conflicting thoughts which I need to sort out in my mind. I might just lay the cards on the table and others may help piece it together.
The photo below is the only other picture of the north wall showing the tiles before they were replaced with clap board that I know of. And amazingly, this is already C&S days.


Would still like to know how I was able to bring up such a good image in the past and not now. I have switched to a Mac, maybe thats the difference.
Thanks again.

[Chris Walker]

John,

I think what you are seeing as "shingles" are pixelations from low res picture.  

Since there are already previous decade views taken of that end of the Depot with Clapboard siding available to view, I doubt shingle siding would be laid with such narrow rows to the weather.  Think how many more would be required, it has been my observation that there are few views that show shingled siding in Colorado as compared with the East Coast where saltbox construction was popular.
 
Your picture of the #9 is post the conversion (1929>) of the Roundhouse Lead switch to blades. see the last photo in  http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/C-S-Switch-Chairs-and-Ball-Throws-tp8427p8530.html



Note the addition on the end of the Depot visible in this view that fits in the location of that visible rib in this view.




Sometimes when a photo is enlarged into much, one tends to lose focus and so resetting to lesser zoom helps to clarify the mind.

[John Droste]

Chris,
The photo of the depot with the fence collapsing, It kind of looks tiled but we know it is not. Was this photo taken before or after the photo taken of the number 9?

Just to go back to my observation on the Pacific picture. When I looked at it the glazing bar was absolutely clear and precise. So was the brickwork on the end of the hotel, next to the tiles that you suggest would have been pixelations. I have made this mistake before, I know and understand what you are saying.

I often wondered how the tiles were attached to the wall and only recently came to know that there is a layer "packing case" type boarding behind the clap board,

That dark painted area is all the underlying boards painted. Above the workers head are more exposed boards where the clap board is missing. One board is painted and has lettering partially exposed. So this cladding would have covered the four sections of wall in the north wall from the start in Como. And if the building was assembled to be up against the wall of the hotel then nobody would have seen it easily.
So I am wondering if the tiles were placed on the wall after the depot was moved away from the depot or were there all along.

An interesting point to make here in the conundrum is that the eaves of the depot are in line with what was called the "second extension." The eaves on the other two sides and end protrude much further. This would be evidence in itself that the building was assembled against the hotel after the hotel was there. But on the other hand, I have explained how the roof of the again "second addition", on the northern face, extended right through to the western corner originally but was changed to stop snow collecting against the hotel wall, on the roof.
 I have also gone into detail explaining how it looks as if the depot was moved to come into line with the hotels and set askew of the tracks.
 It all needs to be given thought to but I will get there.
 There is also the matter of the pseudo bracing on the north wall, shorter than that of the south end because of the lesser roof overhang. A decorative brace has been added to the North side of the return section of the depot and it was not bothered with on the south side. See the brace on the right!


So you see, it suggests that the braces were added after the depot was moved away from the hotel. And maybe also then the wall tiles. Which kind of makes sense.
Altering the north wall to have a pitched roof meant that the wall would have to be stripped back a certain amount build the "A" part frame above the wall. This is evident inside the building with the top half dozen lining boards being replaced where there are joins in the wall sections. So one would imagine that it would be similar circumstances outside also, if there were already tiles on the wall.

 Just coincidentally, one of the walls inside the Oil Room had remnants of tiles on the wall. Or at least signs that they were there. So I was told
 So I need to go over it, again and again. Because I want to know the sequence of events that took place around this area. It is a puzzle and it is probably so because I am missing something. And as before, very possibly so because I am mistaken about something. Put a piece of the puzzle in the wrong place, metaphorically.

[CBryars2]

Not to try and hijack this topic - can someone point me in the right direction for Hotel pictures as it would have been in 1907.  Roundhouse would be hepful also.  Goal is to build module of Como as was in 1907.

Thanks Cameron

[ComoDepot]

That would be the current building, I have a very clear picture from 1897 and the floor plans as designed, built there were some minor changes.

1907 well I do not have a date on this photo but I would expect it to be about then:



What sort of compression are you looking at doing, which scale, 1907 would be just after what I call peak Como so a full Roundhouse.

[John Greenly]

Hi John,

a minor correction-  if you look more carefully at the photo of the depot during renovation you'll see that the dark surface you mention is not painted, it's a material like tar paper that is commonly laid under shingles or in this case clapboards as a layer of weatherproofing.  I wonder if some of your puzzlements about this building come from unfamiliarity with American building materials and practices of the past (and present).  I don't mean this as a criticism,  I just wonder if your thoughts would be helped by studying this a bit.  I'm no expert,  but there must be places to read up on this sort of thing.  

 I live in a house from the Greek Revival era (1830's and '40's) in New York state,  and in working on it over the last 25 years I've learned mainly that the basic building practice was improvisation- people cobbling  together buildings with whatever they had to work with- which often didn't include much skill!  Around my area there were knowledgeable people who knew timber frame ("post and beam") construction and directed the construction of frames for barns and houses like mine, but after the frame was up,  what might look like a complex and interesting construction history is mostly nothing more than just marginally competent workmen making it up as they went along.   There were no building codes or code officers to inspect and ensure it was done any particular, proper way.  

By the way, I haven't noticed evidence in photos of much timber frame construction in Colorado, they seem to have gone from log buildings to balloon frame ("stick-built") construction without a major timber frame period in between- is that true?  

John Greenly

[John Greenly]

John,

If I may, one more small suggestion-  in your second picture, do your comments refer to the righthand roof overhang?  That is modern repair work.  The sheet visible on the underside of the overhang looks like OSB (oriented strand board) a modern, inexpensive exterior sheathing material commonly used on roofs.  Looks like a recent stopgap repair to a failing roof.  I don't imagine this has any relevance to long ago.  

John Greenly

[ComoDepot]

John, I think I mentioned that there appeared to be scrap boards that had been used for sheathing the north wall, I was interested in seeing what had been painted on them but we did not have to take that many boards off so never found out, no tar or felt paper.

[John Droste]

Hello John,
You are correct.  Terminology for building construction varies greatly between our countries I have and am finding out. It does not help you guys when I am using terms that you are not familiar with. And vice versa.
 
And. don`t know why I said the wall was painted black. All housing in Australia today has to be wrapped for insulation purposes. We don`t use black plastic except under concrete though.

And yes I am aware that the material on the underside of the roof at the back of the depot is replacement. This would have happened when the building roof was repaired waterproof.
I was talking about the boards on the wall behind the black plastic, melthoid or tar paper, whatever it is. Directly above the worker working on the corner of the window, up high above the window, some clap board is missing. There, is the piece of sign or lettered board exposed.

Regarding framed buildings. I believe that the part of the Como depot that was recycled to Como was a regional building. There must have been a window manufacturing plant that had this style of window with the fretwork for sale in its portfolio. There was a hotel in Leadville I noticed had these windows. And I also believe I noticed them on a Denver building, from looking at photos. So my guess is that these windows were made in Denver. Somebody here will know. I hope I did not misunderstand your reference to frame construction, or how you put it. I need to go back and check now!!
Thanks.

[John Droste]

David,
that is a great picture and really puts things in perspective for me.
Would like to ask, was the garage already there when you purchased the hotel?
To be more specific to my interest, was the concrete slab for the garage there?
Thanks.

[ComoDepot]

The Garage was built in 1982

The slab was mainly poured then but the bit next to the Hotel was poured c1954 by Bretton Smith.

[Robert McFarland]

More than likely Hallack Bros Lumber Co.

[John Droste]

And the Eastern side of the concrete slab would be supported by the original foundations of the Pacific Hotel?

[ComoDepot]

Well probably the Gilman rear extension over the well, can not be sure. after the fire they roofed it over and the Smith concreteed over the wooden deck/roof.

[John Droste]

Well David, Mate,
below, if the link works are the dimensions from the 'Buildings, bridges and structures' book that you provided me on Como.
The rooms of the basement add up to over 85 feet long and that is internal dimensions before adding wall thicknesses.
Now I have heard of a staircase that was supposed to be and never was found. And I have heard of the owners of the Hotel, during the Cuban missile crisis, preparing for an 'invasion of zombies from Denver' as it was put to me, preparing a hide away in the cellar.
 I strongly suspect that if you drill a few holes through your garage floor, they don`t need to be big, 3/16" _ 1/4", you are not going to hit dirt. You may need to try a few spots before you pop through the concrete. You may drill into a wall underneath first time or a thicker spot in the concrete where it is fortified. I expect you will hit wood first as you go through the concrete. Boxing, to support the slab. If you drill through and there is a cavity as I expect there will be, drop a wire down and see how deep it is. After that, get a small camera that you can feed through the hole and find out where the entrance is.
 You are not going to do any harm drilling a few holes.
 You need percussion hammer drill and an extended length drill bit.
 Other interesting thing in the book. It says the porch was very long on the hotel. I forget without going back how long now, but the porch was not the veranda which is seperate.
I am excited!

https://wordpress697.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/img_0001.jpg

[John Droste]

Okay,
got the platform of the oil house confused with porch of the hotel. No problem!
Where was the oil house that needed 2,172 square feet of deck area?

[ComoDepot]

The basement would seem to be that in the original north end. If not where is it in the description.

The platform is that in front of the hotel, maxed out at 20ft deep so number looks right.

There was a porch at the rear, and of the current building, heard tales but never seen a photo.

[John Droste]

Get your shovel out. Will help keep you warm through the winter.
If the hotel collapsed into the basement and the rubble was left there and the Eating house built over the top, then there is stuff beneath the rubble. They would not have been empty rooms! Maybe the railroad which operated on the first floor kept their files down there. Maybe the Dr did his photo processing in a dark room down there.
Dig those rooms out man, I implore you, if I may be aloud to do that! LOL.