On30 BLI C-16 to B-4-B....

[Mike Trent]

Stan,

Here is a link to the folio sheet page in the Files section of the companion C&Sn3 Blog which is linked at the header of this forum. Jim Courtney has uploaded all of these, and probably has everything listed except the B4F class.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwzGUdYxrdq3c2RTM1ZJQVh6U3M 

You wrote about the smokebox length of C&S engines with bolted extensions.

The measurements of those from engine #71, which was used for the B-4-E models for Overland Models follows:

The overall length of the smokebox with extension is 4'.

The original smokebox length is 21" to the seam.

The extension from the seam to the front is 27".

The 4' smokebox length is pretty consistent among all classes, including the B-3-C, B-4-C and B-4-F classes. Those are all I can get at easily this afternoon.

The typical cab side dimensions of a C&S wood cab are 6 x 6'6" (H) with the roof 8'6" long.

[Jim Courtney]

Hey Stan, welcome to the Forum!

As to lettering fonts, the C&S modern lettering came about in 1906, a couple of years before the C&S was acquired by the CB&Q. C&S record indicate they were originally "aluminum paste" not white, although white may have been used in later years. Thinfilm makes lettering sets in both white and "silver" in all three scales.

As to standard colors, the CB&Q + subsidiaries were a part of the "Hill Lines": GN, NP, SP&S, CB&Q, C&S, FW&D. That might explain the common red and green trim colors with the NP. Since the C&S NG had been repainting structures in grey and green beginning in the mid first decade, the C&S NG structures may not have acquired the red/green scheme until the next repainting in the late 'teens, early 'twenties -- some were never repainted.

Your premise of a "modernized" Cooke 2-8-0 is not unreasonable. When the C&S abandoned Trout Creek, Hancock to Gunnison, and tried to shut down Boreas operations in 1910-11, quite a few Cookes were stored "in white lead" in the Como roundhouse wood addition. The motive power department stored them as a hedge that business might some day improve, and they might be called back to service -- never did, but in your world, it could have happened!

Since you like Q features, here is a Cooke with a box CB&Q style headlight, c1913:





My all time favorite Cooke 2-8-0 is number 47, c1909-10:





If you wanted to replace the domes on your BLI locomotive, to the original Cooke domes, Precision makes O scale brass domes, listed as DSP&P sand (part 1810) and steam (part 1809) domes.

Precision also offers other useful O scale early C&S parts:

The CB&Q box headlights are also offered (part 7538).
They also make a casting for the odd, skinny box headlight with rounded upper corners, as on C&S #37 (part 7543).
They offer a Handlan-Buck arc headlight (beautiful piece) which would be a good replacement part for the Bachman 2-6-0's (part 4309), as used on C&S 12, 21 and 22.
The stubby wood pilot used by the C&S from about 1903 to 1925 is available (part 7544). Alas, the steel pilot beams with the cast poling dimples aren't offered.
The modern C&S sanders are available as part 7501.

Just wish Precision offered the same parts in S scale!!

[snapped_bolt]

  Hey, Mike

     Thanks for the link...I know I really need to study the loco classes. I think I have just about got it, but then I "turn the page" and see there were different locomotive builders for different predecessor railroads, different individual railroad standards that made up the locomotives that I will be modeling....a whole 'nother encyclopedia of information vital to getting them right!
     And thank you so much for the dimensions- I look forward to any other information you can share. The intent is to create a "Frankenclone" locomotive...more if I can find the basic C-16 to start with. I am not the type to just apply different decals...I'll carve away the "W" and replace it with C&S wherever I can.
     I still need to identify the boiler check manufacturer, the whistle type, safety valves, I can figure the brass plumbing...but I want tp replace the cylinders, steam chests, saddle, crossheads... plenty work ahead. I plan to incorporate the brass detail parts by cleaning them with an automotive "metal prep" that will even dissolve silicone residues, and etch the part. The parts will be painted and baked separately at 150-175° for about 1/2 hour. The entire paint job will be in Scalecoat I, using their Quik Dry to prevent a reaction with the plastic finish. The final coat will be 50/50 Scalecoat Gloss and Flat; this is what I was told by a painter who actually finished the PFM locomotives. Steam locomotives are shiny until you open the throttle; but they do exhibit a residual sheen under sunlight.
      I am slowly finishing something that looks like the Selkirk Trestle...I do like "mountain railroading"...and I really need to finish this locomotive so I can perch something upon it!

      Cheers!

        Stan

[Robert McFarland]

Michael York  on Shapeways makes Cooke fluted domes for both Consolidations and Moguls in On3.He lives in Cincinnatti,Ohio-you might contact him for some building tips as he was once attempting to build an original Cooke Consolidation in plastic a la David Fletcher.

[South Park]

Jim,

In the above photo of 40 at the wreck site of number 9,  is that
location identified ?  Never seen that shot before.  The three wire
line running along the tracks does not look like any South Park
wiring I am aware of.  Something north of Denver on the Clear
Creek line ?  A totally unrelated local telephone line that paralleled
the tracks ?

[Jim Courtney]

Hey S.P.,

Chris Walker identified the location as at the Chalmers Ranch between Red Hill and Garos.

See: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Photos-of-C-amp-S-6-9-and-40-at-derailment-in-snow-c1912-td6076.html#a6084

[Don Peterson]

Todd,
Boy that's a lot of memories. Yes Bruce Nall and Scott Anderson came over to shoot that article for Model Railroading Magazine. I think that was probably the last time that layout ran as there was baking soda EVERYWHERE! As I recall you and I had a great time with sledge hammers tearing into the scenery a short time later. And yes that "new" layout would have been spectacular. But even with Darels, John Templetons, Andy Dahm and your help, we would have been slinging plaster for years and still not covered it. I think Sherrod loop was near 100lbs of plaster alone. I do wonder what became of that Balboa mogul and the Overland Bogies. I know  Jim Wing still has all the structures. Ah, good memories.

Don

[snapped_bolt]

  Hi Jim.

   I am so glad this group exists...I have been the unlucky one when buying magazines or books...they usually arrive without the information I was hoping to find; it's more of a gamble to me. This group has been solid, with information, even when speculating...the thoroughness I enjoy immensely. It seems to pay if you have the blood of a detective coursing through your veins!
And why not? Who wants to pay for a big ticket model only to discover it is a South American prototype with C&S painted on it?  For that matter, facts are also important when just detailing a plastic model...there is just so much you are willing to involve yourself in. Some projects get packed away because the information doesn't come through. Been there. With a BLI C-16 years ago. It was never finished.  Sold off.
   I repeat- this forum is a good place to gather information. I hope to be able to share my findings as I go along so others can model the C&S narrow gauge.
  As far as a "theme" may be concerned- I have a few theories. I suppose I am around the mid-20's- by mutual agreement, the Q was able to walk without too much "damage". For that matter, the C&S was able to retain much of what would have been lost with continued Q oversight. A few new "characters" have entered the scene, some with real business in mind, that benefits the railroad, mainly by keeping them rather busy, enough to pull some locomotives out of storage to keep up. And someone has been talking with management about a connection in southern Idaho that has promise to keep the rails shiny. But that is all I'll mention for now, this isn't the "what if" forum.
   Essentially I will be building the B-4-B-s until I figure out how to make a good wagontop boiler, allowing the C's and D's to be built. But I would need to find more information before I get to that.
   Looking at the picture of #47 I resized the image to get the smokebox length to 4' as Mike mentioned. From there I estimated the actual cab length at around 5-9" or 6'; the walkway in front of the cab looks to be around 2'6". I need to know where to cut that nice BLI plastic walkway; then I can build back from the rear end of the walkway in front. They seem to be even at the ends, with a tool box right at the end of the walkway in front of the cab. The walkway running up to the smokebox seems narrower, probably to keep employees from banging their head when working around the running gear.

    Thanks for the pics!

    Anyway, I am running short on time to cut/patch/scrape tonight...

       Cheers!

       

[Chris Walker]

Who wants to pay for a big ticket model only to discover it is a South American prototype with C&S painted on it?

Well it did have D&RG on the Tank sides and numbered 433 when I saw it in 1992 at Palmer Lake, I bet that was added insult as well.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/77041/rv/singleitem/rec/56
Ferrocarril de Coahuila y Zacatecas or Coahuila and Zacatecas Railway #12

[snapped_bolt]

  Wow, Chris...

     Really? This must be a fake! It would need an auxiliary tender just to stencil on the roadname!

    I'll remember this!!!


   Cheers,

      Stan

[Robert McFarland]

It would suggest getting a CD of back issues of Bogies and the Loop. Lots of info about members projects.One of them involved kitbashing a C&S loco with a wagon top boiler.If you haven't done so join the DSP&PHS.

[snapped_bolt]

  Thanks, Robert!

     Sounds like a good idea. Besides- how on earth could I expect to get a rotary of Boreas with just one B-4-B? In August, no problem!
     I also believe that joining the DSP&PHS would be most appropriate.

      Later,

       Stan

[South Park]

  Thanks Jim.  I read the posts on the link and was reminded that I HAD
seen that photo before and forgotten it.  Also, the 3-wire ran from Como
to Garos, where the Alma wire peeled off and the BV and Gunnison wires
kept going west.

  Seeing this photo enlarged, we can see one original "bullet" insulator
(on left) and an 1880's replacement (on right).  Hard to make out the one
on the side pin.  Possibly a second "bullet" ?

[Chris Walker]

this link will show you the lettering,  http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/77044/rv/singleitem/rec/3 note the freightcar reporting marks CYZ on the left.

[Ken Martin]

I just noticed M/W 051 in the picture of Eng. 40. This is the second picture of 051, the other is in the R.Robb book. this picture shows the other side and that the door and window mirror the other side. This is rare to see both sides of a C&S M/W car.

Ken Martin

[Robert McFarland]

Wasn't there a plan of it in B&L?