On30 BLI C-16 to B-4-B....

[snapped_bolt]

....would be easier with manufacturer's documentation!

  Hi!

      I have lurked here a few weeks, wondering what to say. So much fine work, especially brass modification and repair. But with children still in need of us, it is impossible to think of brass locomotives. So either you have the money, or the skill. I know I don't have the money! So I am looking at the BLI 2-8-0 and the Bachmann 2-6-0 as candidates to do the work.
      I attempted this years ago, but there as no such thing a s a C&S Forum or even a blog...any pictures I found were few and far between; certainly not enough information to finish the most spartan version of either locomotive!
      Now, thanks to the forum, I feel I can proceed. There is quite a bit more good information now, and at least I have a good idea of some books to buy on the subject.
      I got my start in narrow gauge modelling ages ago...before there was such a thing as On30. It was all On3 for me, and that is the way it will remain.
      A certain fondness of bridge building has remained all of these years; however, I must give any On30 locomotive a serious overhaul before any bridges I build look right. They look the best "in use"...so I will be on the hunt for parts to finish the locomotives.
      I recently received a BLI 2-8-0 that was in "very good" condition, but detail parts are broken/missing. It has a Digitrax DZ125 decoder...not sure of how to use the jumpers to get it to run on DC. Any help? would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!

       Stan Rutledge

[Mike Trent]

Hi Stan, and welcome to our group!

Look below on the list if you have not seen it, for a post I made previously about an early #22 that I have been both working on and procrastinating on for some time. The castings that have been used on this project are mostly available from PSC and would serve to backdate an early version #22 as well for you. Your biggest challenge might be in removing the smokebox extension if you want to use a diamond stack the way I have done. The extension was to provide interior baffles of screen to capture cinders for a straight stack. On earlier engines including even the same engines like #22, cinders were captured in the diamonds or other earlier variations.

If anyone is interested, I can post contact information for PSC. I believe their catalog may be available on line now.

One thing I will never be able to help you with personally is sound!

[snapped_bolt]

  Hi Mike

    Thank you for the welcome!

    My interest lies in modeling around 1925 or so.

    My scenario I have mulled over involves a slight twist in the timeline that the C&S narrow gauge was held by the Q, that is, they bowed out early and some investors carried on with the lines.

    The first loco I want to finish is the 2-8-0. I finally dug through BLI's online documentation and found a simple diagram for the orientation of the jumpers to allow DC operation. The loco runs very well forward, but there is a click once per revolution in reverse, can't convince myself that it's the clank of the main rod!

    I have had the PSC catalog downloaded and have created a rudimentary list of parts needed for the conversion; but the list is a short one as I have yet to identify parts that are not labeled as "C&S". This would include injectors, check valves and other manufacturer-specific details. Being that the roster was formed of locomotives from so many predecessor railroads and manufacturers, one really needs to look carefully to get the flavor of each locomotive!

   The loco I did years ago involved the swapping of a Bachmann Mogul smokebox, front and door, grafting that to the BLI boiler; I remembered I lowered the entire boiler/smokebox assembly, grafted the Mogul cab onto the boiler, got an excellent fold-down Ridgway stack, installed a "wagon top" to the boiler, and changed/moved both domes. For simplicity's sake I will be doing this one as a straight-boilered version hence the B-3-B in the title. I hope to make an "adapter" to change over the straight boiler to a wagon top, but I'm hot quite there yet.

    A far as sound is concerned-  Personally I have heard sound systems since around 1992. The first one made a diesel sound like a mechanical refrigerator. The "steam" sounds were foreign to me (I was a fireman on a steam loco back in the 70's) and I cringed
because every move was "full throttle". Recently I have found ESU's Loksound "Full Throttle" brings a great deal of relief to my ears as the engineer can close the throttle and the train will drift rather than come to an abrupt halt!

    All this being said, I think it is safe to say that I will do some earlier versions of "both" locos -how can I possibly say no?

    I am about to hand-lay track on a single 8' long module. Since I actually built track on the 1:1, there is no way I can convince myself to use oversized spikes; nor can I overlook a single unspiked tie, so I have been using spikes from Proto87 Stores; so far, just on bridges. The results are definitely worth it. Them little spikes is fiddly to the fullest extent, but once you get your rhythm, it's not so bad. All my ties are basswood.

    I don't know if I can use the BLI tender at all. I'll probably sell it off to partially finance the parts I need for the B-3-B. I guess I need to clear out some parts organizers, get that  "Bumblebee" apart and soaking in some 91% isopropanol.

    Here we go again!

        Cheers,

         Stan

[Mike Trent]

Stan,

I have attached a couple of photos of a BLI C&S 2-8-0 project that I assisted with two or three years ago. I don't believe any of these pictures have been posted here before. Runs very well, but no sound.

This is straight stacked #44, regauged to On3:









 

[Robert McFarland]

It isn't that hard to shorten a smokebox-I've done it  before.Are you converting your engine to On3?

[snapped_bolt]

YES!

   What is there not to like about that? This is right up my alley. Very inspirational. Thanks for posting!

   Later,

   Stan

[Lee Gustafson]

Mike,

Can your share any details about the #12 in the background of the #44 photo?

Lee Gustafson

[snapped_bolt]

   Hi-

    At this point I will be sticking with a more modern version, so boiler extensions are OK.

    I do indeed plan on an On3 conversion. Hand-laid track in On3 looks so NICE, I just can't resist. Scale modeling is such a compromise-every smaller scale has issues on orders of magnitude as far as I am concerned. Of course one can do a fine job, but I can get a lot more tungsten carbide weight in On3 than in smaller scales! It is heavier than lead so it consumes less volume..



     Cheers!

        Stan

[Mike Trent]

Lee, that #12 was rebuilt by Todd Hackett years ago - also from an old Balboa Cooke Mogul.

[Robert McFarland]

Could PSC or San Juan drivers be used in the conversion?

[Mike Trent]

Doubtful, unless existing drivers could be located with tires. Plus it would require boxes that would fit the axles and frame. The existing drivers are OK.

[Todd Hackett]

Mike Trent wrote

...that #12 was rebuilt by Todd Hackett years ago...

Many, many years ago. I think I finished it in the 1980s. I've only seen it a couple of times in the last 15 or 20 years since it went to Rob Smith's layout, and it was in a box most of its life before that, so I don't remember it that well. I do remember turning the smokebox front from a brass hammer head, and one of the domes from the original dome (I think I turned the other from raw brass). I wasn't able to find a generator casting that was very close, so I fabricated the generator in several pieces from brass. I may have time to start building models again soon, but that was probably the most ambitious model project that I ever completed.

[Don Peterson]

It was/is a great model Todd. Put on many miles on my old South Park layout as I recall. It ran Very well. A KTM gearbox as I Recall?

Don Peterson

[Todd Hackett]

Don Peterson wrote

...Put on many miles on my old South Park layout as I recall. It ran Very well. A KTM gearbox as I Recall? ...

I had forgotten about all the running at layout tours at your place in Louisville. That would have been late 1980s and early '90s. It did keep going and going while your Overland bogies kept having problems (although I think we finally addressed most of those). Yes, it was KTM gearbox (I think it was 37:1). A NWSL Sagami can motor (20x30?) was attached directly to the gearbox on a brass arm, with the firebox sides cut off and soldered to the frame to allow the motor to fit in the boiler. We did a similar conversion on your Balboa mogul (which you kept looking early and lettered DSP&P 109) using a NWSL gearbox, which if I remember correctly ran pretty well also. I think of that layout whenever I see the Model Railroading issue with the article and cover photo on it show up on eBay, which is surprisingly often. It was the December 1993 issue, and I think the layout was gone before the magazine came out. Didn't you let Bruce Nall spread baking soda all over for the snow scene photos since you were about to tear it out anyway? The article says your new layout (which would be the on on Club Crest in Arvada) was going to be rebuilt and ready for the 1994 Narrow Gauge Convention. I don't remember whether it was open for that, but I don't remember that one getting much completed scenery, but I do remember a lot of benchwork, track, and John Templeton rock castings. Enough lumber was salvaged from that layout after you moved again to build my layout and several layouts for Darel). That second On3 layout would really have been impressive if you had stayed there long enough to finish it.

[snapped_bolt]

OK

   Here we go. Disassembled.


   Spare parts will be sold off to "finance" correct parts for a B-4-B. Tender, boiler and smokebox details, and perhaps the cab- or is there a C&S use for it? I don't have enough drawings to really compare. The Bachmann mogul cab looks fairly close, but may be 6" too short, among other things.
   Heck, these "abandoned" locomotives aren't too bad to take apart. Thanks to some ham-handed previous "mechanic", I found it easy to get it apart as there were missing screws- AND screw posts!
   Now I need to put the boiler/smokebox into an nice, relaxing, luxuriant deep bath of 91% isopropanol. Check at 5 minutes, 15, an hour- if the plastic remains un-marred, it will go overnight. If the paint holds through the alcohol bath, the next step is Easy-Off Oven Cleaner sprayed straight onto the shell while it's in a big Ziploc bag. Zip it up to keep the fumes at work. If the plastic holds up, she stays for a few hours. If the paint still holds, it's either soda blasting or just abrade it off with sandpaper, etc. I need to remove cast-on piping, and any extraneous rivets on the smokebox. So I will have to get physical whether the paint comes off or not.
   I need to get that boiler in it's "bath"...need to get to bed.

     Later,

       Stan

[snapped_bolt]

Alright!

   Title amended lest the uninitiated think I actually thought it a good idea to take the C-16 and convert it to a 2-8-0...

   Thanks to Mike Trent for telling me how to edit the title! Saves me a lot of  'splainin down the road!


      Cheers,

      Stan

[snapped_bolt]

Hi

   Minor update.

   The loco was disassembled for evaluation of what I have on hand.  





   The C-16 stack looked fat enough for some jolly old elf to drop through- out it goes. The temp stack sitting there is from the Bachmann 2-6-0. Looks better, but base and taper are of a "foreign" design. I cannot yet identify domes of this size/type on the 2-8-0's at all- out they go.
  I also removed the smokebox front/door from the 2-6-0; here it sits, tack glued at two small points for effect. Beats the C-16 part.
  I also removed the rear cab support from the 2-6-0; I have not yet found any images of a C&S 2-8-0 that had a "solid plate" cab support as was modeled on the C-16.
  The driver brake cylinders were also removed, with the exception being the remnant that was near the width of the frame. I may need a solid attachment here, and I can make one out of this should the need arise; once complete, I cut away whatever isn't B-4-B.
  I agonize over the center-to-center spacing for the center drivers; It would be easy to move the axle slots, but the side rods would no longer fit. Maybe I can make a decision later.
  I need to get some C-16 frames so I can set the gauge to O scale 36". The entire boiler/smokebox assembly was lowered approx. .100", allowing a little space to go lower if needed, or raised, depending on the individual locomotive "modeled".
  All cast-on detail is being removed from the boiler. The cast-on air tank was removed carefully, yet still left a hole that will need to be filled. At this point I am still hopeful that I can remove the rest of the cursed paint and finish the boiler barrel without a wrapper. I do have a good source of super-thin ready-to add scale boiler banding (well, close-.003"). The smokebox will not only need a wrapper, but it also needs to be lengthened. If anyone can get me a dimension from an existing brass model, I would appreciate it! The lengthening will accomplished with a short piece of ABS or PVC pipe, whichever I can turn to diameter the best.
   The cylinders will be replaced as a set, as will the pilot, headlight bracket, headlight, stack, domes, air pump, check valves, boiler washout plugs, and bell.
   The jury is still out on the cab. At this point it may be not a lot more than a frame that I can sheathe with appropriate detail. That yellow paint has been in and out of denatured alcohol several times, and the paint still needs to be scraped with scraps of basswood to get it to come off. If anyone is familiar with removal of BLI's paint, please let me know!

   That tender was confiscated from that Budweiser Bachmann 2-6-0, and temporarily modified to see just to see if it would hold up for #22. It may be "re-allocated" to the B-4-B.

    I have a Narrow Gauge Pictorial in the mail that will come here after a nail-gnawing wait- hopefully I can find a few more B-4-B pictures that will help get this finished and looking good!

   Cheers,

    Stan

[Mike Trent]

Hey, Stan, looks like you're off to a great start!
 
Keep us posted. Have you re-gauged this, or going with On30? Either way, it's looking good. You'll enjoy that pictorial. They did two for the C&S, as you probably know already. Watch that Leadville Shops thread. You'll be looking for decals pretty soon.  

[Jim Courtney]

If anyone is familiar with removal of BLI's paint, please let me know!


I've had good luck soaking plastic bodies / parts in full strength Simple Green for a few days, occasionally scrubbing with a toothbrush. Hasn't marred a plastic body yet . . .

As for photos of B-4-Bs, what year are you looking at? first decade or teens?

If I squint my eyes at your first photo, I can see your BLI 2-8-0 looking something like this:

[snapped_bolt]

 Hi, Jim

     That is roughly what they look like...I am working to repair the rough spots!
     I still have the cab in denatured alcohol...it has been in there several days. Occasionally I pull it out, try to scrape off a little more paint...and back in it goes. I have a Harbor Freight soda blaster, but it is more work than the DA. It prefers to be non-operational. I will pick up a Paasche AEC blaster, they seem to be the ticket. Not only will they remove unwanted paint blankets, but they can lovingly kiss away paint, decals and dry transfers to make a weathered effect. I'll still pick up some Simple Green because there is nothing like a full arsenal when battling colors.

      I was studying the tender lettering...it sure appears as if the NP Shops did all of it, as the fonts appear the same as what the NP put on their tenders! I turn...look as the C&S buildings....red with green trim...the NP used "Indian Red" and "Bottle Green"...according to my dad who was painting NP buildings before WWII... sure seems like a strange coincidence!

      Strange...the bottom of that image of #37 seems to show a 6-hole joint bar...with hex nuts! Who is going to make 6-hole joint bars? I have seen quite a few of them in images on this smaller rail. Heck, we still need 4-hole anglebars. The "fishplate era" was just another experiment. They offer little lateral support, especially on curves. The rails would tend to straighten out on curves, leaving kinks at the joints.

      Stan