Never Say Never!

[Chris Walker]

Well, I never read about this before

[Todd Hackett]

I wonder what locomotive that was. The article says it was the first mogul that has been seen in the mountains, which was already apparently a common term for a 2-6-0, which the Midland didn't have but the South Park moguls had been in the mountains long before this, and the context doesn't make sense for the more common use of mogul referring to a powerful businessman. It also says it was no. 32, but the Midland 32 was built by Baldwin in April 1988, 10 months after the date on the article.

[Southpark]

GREAT SCOTT, and it is not April 1st!!! That is now the photo to match the missing photo of the DSP&P and Midland on Trout Creek Pass.  So, speculation, at Buena Vista I wonder if the Grande took the special on to Leadville, or the DSP&P on the trackage rights deal.
Looking forward to the conversations.
Tom Klinger

[Jimmy Blouch]

Time to get out Morris Cafky's book
Jimmy

[Chris Walker]

Following reports:



Todd,
I read that as 82  and Cafky doesn't have any 2-6-0's listed. Go figure just what the Reporter was on about(nothing changes eh).

Hi Jimmy,
no mention in there as far as I have read, other than the mention of the Midland entering Leadville 31st Aug, 1887.

The California Gulch trestle was completed around the 25th July, '87; The Herald Democrat August 31, 1887 reported the end of track was 1 mile out at 2pm, reached the C.G. trestle at 6pm, and ceased tracklaying at 7:50 at W. Chestnut on Spruce.

What gets my attention is that it was(reported) delivered via the High Line, and "taken to where the broad gauge intersects the Highline".
That in itself is an enigma:
the DSP&P is written as ended at Nth. Hemlock and E. 4th Street; This was the Alice Placer ground, and close to the later site of the Alice Shaft and the adjacent Cloud City shaft.
The C.M. connection not being made until 1898(Colorado Railroads book).
Poor has the trackage beyond e-o-t ( 4th St? not the Depot at 7th St.) as under the Leadville Mineral Belt 1898, with no distinction.
The reported 2pm tracklaying e-o-t is 2.4 air miles from the DSP&P, no mention of grading to the DSP&P across the California Gulch placers(why would they at that date).

Tom,
didn't the Joint Operating Agreement lapse after the completion of the High Line?
Switching to the D&RG near the Roundhouse and via Oro junction brought up the Iron-Silver Br. to the A.V. Sampler would make no sense at that early June date with the Trestle under construction and elevation differences.

[Southpark]

Correct that "Joint Track Agreement" had ended BUT special runs were had; derailments etc.  I would guess that this would have fallen into that area.  Anyway, great find.  Tom

[Keith Hayes]

AHA!

I happen to have a well-worn copy of Cafky handy (well worn from my earlier, mis-directed days as a budding Midland fan).

Readers of the forum likely know that a Mogul wheel arrangement is a 2-6-0, the operative digit here being six driving wheels. I would not be surprised that the journalist, or editor, did not recognize the importance of the pilot truck, figuring that all six-wheelers are Moguls. The CM rostered 2-8-0s, 4-6-0s and 0-6-0s.

My deep recollection is that 0-6-0s were used during construction. I flipped to the back where the Reverand has very nicely laid out rosters, and indeed as others have pointed out, 32 was a 4-6-0 built by Baldwin in 1888. So, on I flipped to find the 0-6-0s. There were three, numbered 100-102. But wait....the note for 102 (Schenectady, class of 1887) states, "Originally numberdd 32, renumbered 102 in 1888."

So, part of the mystery is solved. 100-102 were originally 30-32 and were renumbered to create a gap for more mainline power. A photo of 32 appears on page 27, "advancing the railhead during construction of the east side of Hagerman Passs in the midsummer of 1887...." (DPL Western History Collection) The photo was taken at a cut just short of Hagerman Trestle.

The folio lists the locomotive weight at 91,000 pounds, and the tender at 55,000 pounds. The locomotive is 45.5 tons

A quick read finds no mention of the movement of locomotive and rolling stock to advance construction, nor any mention of the locomotive or rolling stock being disassembled and reassembled.

The article states that the locomotive was moved from Hill Top to Leadville. Could the South Park have shipped the engine over Boreas and Fremont Passes? All the options seem like long shots here.

 

[Chris Walker]

Ya beat me too it Keith....I went down that road, turned up a dead-end, reversed direction and ended up in a cul-de-sac  Stopping to make a coffee and get the Fire lit as the sun ain't up for much longer. thanks for contributing.

[Keith Hayes]

Mel McFarland notes that a locomotive ead shipped over the D&RG to Leadville. I didn't get much farther.

[Chris Walker]

I looked through the B.V. Weekly, and found no mention for the June Mths. Only June 16th mentioned Midland engines were here(B.V.) I did find that the UP had started up running through to Gunnison in June 2 issue; and later Baldwin was looking to output 40 cars per day! No mention of any special trains over the D&RG that month.