Kaslo & Slocan Rwy connections

[Rob Hupfield]

Hi all,
I've been lurking here for a while, absorbing the incredible C&S historical wealth and research methods you all share. It's been very helpful and also inspirational while I research my own period prototype. Thank you all for sharing so much.

In 1896, the Kaslo & Slocan Rwy in BC bought C&S Rotary #2 in a desperate attempt to manage the massive slides of the West Kootenays. An epic story in its own right. After 1911, when the K&S was absorbed by the CPR, the rotary went on to service the CPR in the Coquihalla.

The K&S purchased flats from the St. Charles Car Company in 1895-87. Most were rebuilt onsite into outside-framed boxcars or gondolas. I have some 1906 wreck photos showing period St. Charles underbody and truck details that were probably standard until the 1899 consolidation. Any interest?

[Rob Hupfield]

I was wrong. The rotary was RGS #1. Apologies.

The St. Charles truck castings appear common to everything from St. Charles until 1899, including Mexican 2-ft gauge. Note the "H" pattern journal covers and other cast truck parts. The K&S used a 3-spring pattern each side for a 20 ton car lading.

[Mike Trent]

Hi, Rob. Thanks for the post! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that rotary was actually, RGS #2, and was a virtual twin of RGS #1. That will make things a lot easier for you if you want to add that rotary to your layout.

Dave Ferrier, a displaced Canadian National in Denver, shared the information about the rotary a few months ago.

[Dave Eggleston]

I would like to see what you have, even if its not related to the UPD&G/C&S--if that's ok with the admins. I've been researching the CPR in the Slocan for years, have visited the area several times in the past ten years and just spent a few days into looking at the K&S facilities and trackage in Kaslo based on a photo that's just surfaced this week actually showing the very camera-shy engine house area. Fascinating line with snow problems that the South Park would fully understand.

[Rob Hupfield]

The K&S rotary plow is confirmed as RGS #1, the older of the two RGS sister Leslie plows. Sold to K&S Dec. 29, 1896. Leslie no. 35, built at Portland Loco Co. February 1891. Became CPR no. 400812, retired July 1928.

[Rob Hupfield]

Hi Dave,
I've got lots on the original K&S and later CPR Kaslo facilities, including the original Standard Drawings of the K&S engine house and turntable, and photos of the original 1894 paper trackage survey. Interested in what you may have found, either here if there is general interest or direct email. The K&S photos show St. Charles car details that don't seem to be reflected in anyone's current models or kits of first generation C&S cars.
Cheers,
Rob

[Dave Eggleston]

Rob,

I'll move this to DM as the bigger K&S/CPR picture is a bit out of context for the forum.

[Dave Eggleston]

Rob,

Tried to DM you via this server but your gmail address bounced. Can you check it's ok? Thanks.

[tonyk375]

Hello Mike.  Can you direct me to the info that Dave shared?

"Dave Ferrier, a displaced Canadian National in Denver, shared the information about the rotary a few months ago."

*Pictures of the plow on the K&S are a bit scarce and poor quality wich is normal for Rotary "in action" shots.
*There is pic showing the tender in the background being used as a MOW water car, it confirms it is basically identical to RGS 2.  
*Another picture shows the rotary in use confirming the roof line of the plow is also like the 2.
* a picture from the Revelstoke Museum shows a plow that is labeled as the 400812. When I spoke with the very nice and knowledgeable lady working there, she confirmed she could read 400812 on the original.  Can't quite make it out on the copy.  It had been rebuilt with a different body, somewhat normal for most of the rotaries. They have a great collection of rotary pictures.

#35 Portland 1/1891 Rio Grande Southern 1; 3’ gauge;
first used 12-3-1891; sold 12/31/1896 Kaslo & Slocan #1
(British Columbia)$15,388 + $630.90 frt; rblt  
by GN Hillyard shops in Spokane 01/97,
shipped to Nelson trial run 2-18-97
 on K&S; 1913 line to CP; CP 400812;
Standard gauged; retired 7/19/28; 9’-6”
blade

[Dave Eggleston]

Bob Turner called it out as RGS #1 in his book Skyline Limited. Not saying that's correct or not, but it's part of the established history at this time. Nice to see if that can be confirmed as accurate or not.

I believe this rotary, after it was standard gauged, regularly visited the CPR's replacement line for the K&S several times. And to do this it had to be barge floated to Kaslo or Rosebery, as did anything that ran on the CPR's Slocan district.

Quite a few images of rotary action are in the archives (and online) of Kootenay Lake Historical Society Collection, also Arrow Lake Historical, Silvery Slocan Historical and the Sandon Historical group.

[Mike Trent]

Hi, Tony, I had lunch with Dave today, and we talked about this thread. I'll see if I can goad him into joining in. He showed me a book a few months ago which had pictures and maybe a roster of the K&S.

[Mike Trent]

All of those Leslie Rotarys of that era were built for Standard Gauge and fitted with 36" guage wheel sets. Those paddle blades on the wheel are usually giveaways to Leslie built rotarys. These include RGS, DSP&P (C&S 99200) and D&RG (including OM).  

[Dave Eggleston]

Bob Turner's Skyline Limited is the K&S's version of Mac Poor's DSP&P. It includes rosters and that may be the book Dave is thinking of. From the roster appendix, p.250, here's the bit on the Rotary:

[Mike Trent]

Thanks, Dave. I think that may be the source. "Rebuilt to Standard Gauge" is maybe a little misleading, as it really meant changing the wheel sets under the rotary and switching tender trucks. Check out surviving Rotary OM at Chama, It still has it's wide trucks.

[Dave Eggleston]

Other than a CPR book, that's likely it.

Yeah, it wasn't unusual for rotaries to have SG trucks with wheels pushed in, if I'm recalling correctly.

Just scanned through CO and British Columbia papers to see if there's any other clues. I do see the plow getting to Spokane to be worked on, then shipped. Then to Nelson, BC, and loaded on a barge to float to Kaslo. Then a test run up Kaslo Creek (3% grade). Then silence. No mention of the RGS. Maybe the Spokane papers of Jan 1896 noted it, haven't looked yet.

Nothing about the sale in the online CO papers I found. But the RGS seems to have made a profit that year so the argument they sold because they couldn't afford it (what I've heard before) may not be accurate? Turner in Skyline Limited quotes 2 letters from J. Hill to the RGS along the lines of "do you have a rotary you can sell?" Seeing this transaction happened in December 1896 the timing of "yes we do" from the RGS seems odd to me.

[Mike Trent]

As I recall, Dave's book has a good picture of the Rotary and it is very much like RGS #01.

[Dave Ferrier]

Mike

From what I know it was number 1 that went to the Kaslo and Slocan as was posted in the thread somewhere, I think you want me to get that snowplow after all. I model in Sn3 and have my rendition of Rosebery and then up the hill to the Payne tram house and concentrator. My layout is open for the Sn3 Symposium in a few weeks and looking forward to seeing what people think of it. I also have interest in Westside lumber C&S/RGS and Dolly Varden but that is another adventure.

Thanks for letting me into the group, Dave

[Mike Trent]

Hi Dave. Glad to have you aboard. What was the book you showed me when we were talking about that RGS Rotary? Is it the same as referenced earlier in this thread?

[Mike Trent]

For those who may not be aware, Dave is more than just a displaced Canadian National. He is very active in the Denver modeling community and is actually hosting and organizing the upcoming Sn3 Symposium all scales welcome next month in Denver.

He models in a few arenas of interest and is an excellent and skilled 3D Print Master. It was Dave who created the McConnell Stack for my #7. He also has more than a passing interest in the C&S.

I'm sure several to many of you will be attending the Symposium and will enjoy it.

[Dave Ferrier]

Mike, correct it is the same reference book. I am not aware of any other book than The Skyline Limited. If there is let me know.