ISO-Passenger Car dimensions

[amwing1588]

Hi all,
I'm hoping that someone on this group will be able to point me in the right direction for a source of Passenger Car builder diagrams with dimensions and photos. Seems I'm catching the scratch building bug...again! Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
John Miller
Carlsbad, CA.

[Rick Steele]

Exactly What are you looking for?

Ken Martin put together a really nice C&S Passenger car book and I'm sure that he would be happy to sell you one. The cars are based on his research and very extensive knowledge.

Rick

[amwing1588]

Rick,
I'd love to pick up one of Kenneth Martin's books (Colorado & Southern Narrow Gauge Passenger Car Drawings), but as far as I know, I believe they're sold out and out-of-print as well....Unless you have a source for one?

I'm looking for diagrams showing details and dimensions, especially for the baggage(#1-4) baggage/mail (#13), combine (#26 or 30) cars...for now.

I consider myself a pretty good scratch builder, using minimal dimensions, details and photos I can build almost anything. But I need good basic dimensions to start.

Any help is great appreciated.
John

[Jeff Young]

Ken is reasonably active here; hopefully he'll be along shortly.

There's also a book of detailed pictures (but without dimensions).  I can't remember the title off the top of my head, but I should be able to find it if no one else fills in the blanks....

[Jeff Young]

In other news, British Airways lost my luggage.  I'm not so worried about the clothing, but it also contained 2 bags of Boreas Pass dirt, 2 bags of Boreas Pass scree, and a litre of Matte Medium.  Not a happy camper. :(

[Jim Courtney]

This is a good online source of C&S passenger car info: https://www.midcontinent.org/rollingstock/CandS/cs_locator.htm.  Each car (or series of cars) usually has a folio drawing with basic dimensions, as well as a few photos of each.

As for the baggage cars, John Maxwell did a composite drawing back in the 1950s, with basic dimensions for each car, based on the folios:




And here is a folio drawing of RPO-baggage number 13 in its final configuration:




And don't forget, Bob Stears published an excellent set of drawings for RPO-bagagge 13, in its various configurations, recently in the NG&SL Gazette.

If you can get a copy of Ken's passenger car plans book, that is an invaluable source . . .

[Ken Martin]

John,

They are not sold out but are available for #25 plus $5 s&h.
Contact me at kmartin537 at surewest dot net.

Ken Martin

[amwing1588]

Jim,

Wow thanks! This is exactly the type of dimensional information I'm in search of. I'll check out the Mid-Continent link for further info. Did John Maxwell create a book of folio's for all or most of the C&S Passenger rolling stock?

John Miller
Carlsbad, CA.

[amwing1588]

Ken,
Just sent you an email....
John

[Jim Courtney]

Did John Maxwell create a book of folio's for all or most of the C&S Passenger rolling stock?

No, the passenger car folios are surviving C&S documents: "Colorado and Southern Passenger Equipment Folio No. 24". John Maxwell had a copy and derived his drawings from the folio No. 24 book. Ken Martin likely did as well. I acquired a copy a few years back on eBay.

I think all the passenger car folio drawings are posted on the Midcontinent website, usually the last page of each car history.

Here are some baggage car photos:

[amwing1588]

Jim,

Great photos....Thanks for posting them!
Being able to view higher resolution photos, allows me to see more of the smaller details...details that I've never noticed before. One of those details is the small bead trim at the bottom of the fascia/letter board. Not ever actually seeing a prototype in person (hopefully next years planned trip) I never knew that there was a small piece of bead trim at the bottom of those boards. I can't say for sure, but I don't think I've ever seen it on a model either. I could be wrong though....I will continue to review these and other photos of  Baggage #1-3 before starting a build though. I'm not a 100% rivet counter...just 86.7%. Sometimes the smallest details make all the difference!

John Miller
Carlsbad, CA.

[Keith Hayes]

John, welcome to the blog. I am glad you found it, along with the many, many resources here.

I hate to hold you back from scratch building a car if that is what you want to do, but Bill Meredith has the 2-door baggage cars (1 and 2) planned for an upcoming kit run later in 2022 or early in 2023 through his Leadville Designs operation. I asked for this model in Sn3, and Bill has been offering the kits in On3 and HOn3 as well. I am hoping there will be some correct ASF trucks as part of the deal.

While Sn3 is clearly the ideal scale, we also welcome posts on your modelling efforts regardless of scale. Of course prototype discussions are also appreciated and we have puzzled out all sorts of problems here, like this one:

Your comment about the trim on the bottom of the letter board sent me looking back to the images. It seems the most obvious on the photo of 1 from the 20s or early 30s; I don't see the trim on the image of 2 in storage at Waterton near the end of operations in the later 30s. I cannot tell if the trim is on the photos of 3 and 4--it might be on the 3 as I infer the image is of a similar date as the one of 1. I have no idea what purpose this trim piece serves. The siding either extends under the letterboard or terminates under it. It looks like the trim in question extends past the letterboard, so that means it just catches rain, which is never a good thing. There are no windows on the car, and typically there would be a diverter on the roof above the door--though this is not evident in the photos Jim Courtney posted. I wonder if it is a piece of metal trim that is screwed at 8" or 12" intervals along the bottom of the letter board? Do you all suppose that the letter board on 1 is actually sheet metal and this trim secures it to the wood behind? Look at the car end at the right of the photo--that trim over the door is AWFULLY smooth, and next to the door trim, it looks like the metal might not be fastened at the bottom and is bowing away from the blocking behind.

[Doug Heitkamp]

A little timeline info that can help you ballpark the approx. date of the photos.

"American Railway Express Agency" started in 1918 and was changed later to "American Railway Express Inc." This lasted until 1929.

The company became "Railway Express Agency" from 1929 – 1960. It then became "REA Express, Inc." from 1960 – 1975.

[amwing1588]

Hi all,
Just received my copy of Colorado & Southern Passenger cars by Kenneth Martin. I'm so impressed by what he has put together in this small portfolio. All the cars are represented.... I mean ALL THE CARS....With dimensions as well. I can tell this was a true labor of love for Mr. Martin. The drawings are all drawn to HO scale, so to change it to other scale is easy enough.
I'm studying all the drawings and trying to decide which model to build. Defintliy it will be a headend car first, then others later. If you don't have a copy yet, I strongly recommend getting a copy before he no longer offers it. If you're running C&S, no matter what scale, you should have this little book of passenger cars.
Now...what to build!
John Miller
Carlsbad, CA.

[Darel Leedy]

Link to advertisement: C&S Passenger Car Book