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Eight wheel Caboose on C&Sng?

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Derrell Poole Eight wheel Caboose on C&Sng? – I see the ol' ticker counter creeping up on 100k hits. Everybody must be coming here to see if there is any new ssssstufff at the Blog Smorgasbord...
Derrell Poole After corresponding with Hol Wagner about the questions presented in this topic I have come to my final "position de jur" on the C&S...
Jim Courtney So what is your current thinking of the origins of C&S 303 / 1002? I couldn't quite follow your thinking on this. Do you believe this was th...
Derrell Poole 1002 post Feb. 1912 Idaho Springs (and probably more mid decade). Jim, I don't have a solid conviction that the 12th car was 303. I've point...
Chris Walker Derrell, is there any more to this picture or is that it? Looks to me to be up at the Alma Lincoln or the Stanley Con but on the Mainline opposi...
Chris Walker In Derrell's picture of a C&S Bobber #1002: http://c-sn3-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Eight-wheel-Caboose-on-C-Sng-tp488p1918.html ...
Chris Walker Just a little more to add in the location Views Dept. as spurred out of the memorybank by this recent Ebay sale. Title says Sun and Moon Orech...
Chris Walker And a little more digging showed that there was no erasure of the Switchstand targets, they just weren't there in later years after LC McClure sto...
Jim Courtney This is fascinating, Chris. I always envisioned the string of coal cars on the Newhouse/Argo siding as empties, waiting to be loaded at the bin...
Chris Walker That's right Jim, Idaho Springs is absolutely fascinating. The Coalcars loaded with ore at the Newhouse show up in the MCC-4843 and were tal...
Chris Walker Another late view of the Incline in the above discussion, the string of Flatcars is interesting, most likely for scrap rails. photo courtesy ...
Jim Courtney Any idea of the date of the photo, Chris? The flat cars have little to no legible lettering. Jim
Chris Walker May 1941 Photo title (incorrect) Pile of tailing from gold mill, defunct. Idaho Springs, Colorado, which we know to be the waste rock from the...
Robert McFarland What is the purpose of the extension to the air line that I have seen hooked to the hand rail on the rear platform in several of the caboose photo...
Rick Steele Robert, The hose that you mention is a back up hose, It is popularly called a Monkey Tail. These hoses usually have a high pitched air whistle ...
Jim Courtney Forty some odd years ago, I worked my way through college and medical school as a brakeman for the Rock Island, working off the summer extra board...
Derrell Poole Which means I godda add these to my cabooses with Sound car sos I can make 'em whistle when backing up.
Keith Hayes Rick, interesting stuff. When backing, do both the engineer and the guy on the rear platform whistle at crossings? Or, is the brake just tooti...
Jim Courtney Consider the caboose whistle as a bell for the caboose. The few times I used it, the little whistle would be used intermittently, as Rick states,...
Keith Hayes Jim, that is where I was going. <warning, change of topic> I just washed the unpainted model in preparation for an ultrasonic bat...
Derrell Poole That is the entire photo as I have it Chris. It was noted as 1911 but since the car was not reno'd. 'til 1912 that isn't possible. I think it is a...
Jim Courtney A very helpful response, indeed, Derrell! First, the photo--amazing!! I had intuited that the C&S would have applied the small block monog...
Robert McFarland An article by Jason Midyette in the latest B&L said that he believes the car on the ground in Como is C&S SG caboose no.10560 quoting the...
Richard Farmer Regarding the 1003 and 1005, according to the "Narrow Gauge Pictorial"- Caboose Chronology; both cars were scrapped in 1942 after workin...
Derrell Poole Richard, the cars went to the WP&Y in 1943 probably via the Chicago Freight Car Company. The Chronicle in Vol. VIII is not entirely correct in...
Derrell Poole First things first; Derrell is in full blow geezerfication. Yep! I've been working on the process all of my life and it is finally catching up...
Jim Courtney Derrell, With reference to the photo of 313 in Blackhawk: "I also want to point out how the brake cylinder is mounted on this pre-rebui...
Chris Walker Derrell Poole wrote: "And btw I submit that what appears to be a wheel out of place is simply an air hose strategically drooping over th...
Jim Courtney I also doubt that the diagonal rods from cupola end wall to roof are really braces; the open end window suggests to me that they are a form of saf...
Keith Hayes Jim, methinks the diagonal rods are tension members to stabilize the coupola. Others correct me, but the windows are too small to get on the roof ...
Derrell Poole Here Keith; save yourself a trip.
Chris Walker Here you are Keith, a little extra to go with Derrell's pickchurs. {:)) https://flic.kr/p/ryrb2E
Keith Hayes Thanks, Chris! I concede that the end windows appear to have been operable, but it still seems odd to me that one would exit to the roof throug...
Jim Courtney I concede that the end windows appear to have been operable, but it still seems odd to me that one would exit to the roof through the end windows....
Keith Hayes Grab your brake club, open the cupola end window in front of you, carefully climb onto the roof, using the lateral roof walk for best footing. Th...
Ron Rudnick I get the impression that most on this thread are looking for an exotic origin for caboose #302, as ex U&N, KC or D&NO car, and over looki...
Derrell Poole Ron, an excellent observation; we have not considered. This is the kind of thinking that helps channel our understanding forward. I agree that the...
Derrell Poole I've seen those "braces" on cars in the teens after they've been rebuilt. For instance this 1912 photo showing the top of one such caboo...
Rick Steele Monkey Tail, Derrell, Monkey Tail. Use the singular and not the plural. Rick
Derrell Poole okay, okay...! Monkeee tale.... jjjgeeeeez!
Jim Courtney Keith, take another look at the enlarged photo that Chris posted of (?)306--note the open end window and cupola roof grab iron. The end windows w...
Derrell Poole Chris - of course it has a lot of features like 306 - because we know better what 306 looked like than 310 . But if 306 and 310 are sisters as see...
Derrell Poole I donno, Jim. Maybe I just don't have your depth of perception but while I might see some of what you see I don't see enough to say that this fram...
John Schapekahm Kansas Central RailWAY Company (1871-1879) started building a narrow gauge railroad from Leavenworth aimed at reaching the western boundary line o...
Derrell Poole The KC cars seem like a likely fit and people like Ron Rudnick and myself have spoken of this in that regard. Nothing has shot that possibility do...
Mike Trent Rob Smith built a model of what I think was that U&N caboose. I'm sure it has 4 wheel trucks, and he painted it green, for the love of God. I ...
Derrell Poole "The Colorado & Southern Ry Freight Equipment." roster issued 1 April 1903. Fifteen cabooses listed 300 - 314. The reno'g. guide, wh...
Jeff Ramsey I might be crazy but I actually believe that 302/087 might still exist right in Como! Located right across the road from the roundhouse is a car b...
Derrell Poole Jeff. This has apparent merit. I can't tell with certainty - is the roof curved? The details you point out are compelling. It would be interest...
Jeff Ramsey Car body has arched roof. This mystery car might have a # over the door.
snapped_bolt Hi This interior decor color choice seems to be an antique harvest gold, influenced heavily by the cigar-smoking period. Is this pa...
Derrell Poole Thanks Jeff. Great shots inside the car. Has a caboose feel to it. Similar color as that of 1009 at the CRRM. I continue to look to the D&N...
Tim Schreiner One thing I agree with here is that the car that was set next to the roundhouse is the same one across the street. I did my study on this a couple...
Derrell Poole One thing you agree with?... Anyway; Tim. Did the car body have a round roof - like a caboose? It looks like might have but you examined the car.
Tim Schreiner I meant to say, for sure that I agree tha the car is the same one that used to sit next to the roundhouse. I'm not knowledgeable about the rest.
Jim Courtney Great pictures. Any evidence of past end platforms or caboose style end handrails on the car body??
Jeff Ramsey No end caboose style hand rails on the end but there is evidence of hand rails along side the center door and grab irons going up the side next t...
Tim Schreiner Here she is Mike.
Derrell Poole Well that is a cool car! Thanks Tim.
Doug Heitkamp Speaking of U&N Cabeese….. Years ago I was sent this picture. The theory is that it was a U&N Caboose. Anybody have any info? Doug
Mallory Hope Ferrell The faded old photo posted by Doug Heitkamp of a four-wheel caboose is of great interest. For the past week I have pondered and tried to determine...
Derrell Poole By the end of 1885 the ORER listings for the DSP&P had finally caught up with how many waycars were actually on the ground in Colorado. For No...
Derrell Poole Well let's try this again; no one checks my math... Well! First let me emphasize that most of this is Theory. That hard numbers in documents li...
Chris Walker Derrell, was there any co-operation between the D&RG/DSP&P at the time of the joint-track to Leadville from B.V. that led to similar rol...
Robert McFarland On the Kiersey site compare photo dspp00012 of aDSP&P car at Nathrop with m00406 in the BV joint yards which shows what seems to be a D&...
Derrell Poole Tut, tut, tut, Robert; that is a new thread. Muss'nt pollute the caboose thread with stock car sssstuffff....
Ron Rudnick Some thing to ponder UP Journals show that the Kansas Central caboose cost @421 for 2 in November, 1884 UP Journals show that the Colorado Centr...
Ron Rudnick Analysis of U&N caboose entrys, O. R. E. G. 6/1885: Caboose #66 - 85 19 cars #66 - 69 Probably Ohio Falls Cars, 2-trucks no cupola ...
Derrell Poole BTW in response to your citation of the costs of cabooses recorded by the UP; in Chapter 22 of Wagner's electronic book letters from the CRRM's C&...
Robert McFarland You gotta watch out for those shipping clucks!!
Ron Rudnick More Food for Thought Kansas Central Caboose Cars UP Journal 11/84: 2 new caboose #35 & #36 $842.96 @421.50 O.R.E.G. 6/85: #30-...
Derrell Poole 1884 UP Annual report - CCng - 2 waycar & caboose cars CCsg - 4 waycar & caboose cars DSP&P - 21 waycar & caboose cars KCn...
Jim Courtney Derrell, In your post, you list: "June 1898 DL&G Annual Report - 12 Cabooses with Westinghouse brakes and Selden couplers" ...
Derrell Poole Well the photo of 306 doesn't reveal a brake cylinder so I don't think it proves all of them had auto brakes but that is what the Annual Report in...
Ron Rudnick Bobbers Utah & Northern: Journal entry 6/83: 12 Way Car and Caboose @ $1,488. We now know that at least one of them was a bobber, ...
Derrell Poole So in summary, so far as the 4 wheeled car is concerned, we really haven't gone anywhere. The possibility of where the car came from could be - an...
Derrell Poole Oh, BTW, class; test in the morning. Professor Rudnick will be doing the grading... And yes; it is open book.
Robert McFarland Ron Rudnicks DSP&P Guide p11 mentions 3 cabooses being written off while at the same time mentioning 2 18ft coal cars opening the possibility...
Ron Rudnick As for the KC car an answer might be found Kansas City. The Federal Archives located there should have the files of the KC "cars sold as per...
Richard Farmer My brother Bob and I own and are restoring C&S caboose 1008. I have thought for sometime that the car might have come from some other railroad...
Derrell Poole Richard, we have spoken on the phone about the possibilities of the origin of the two round corner cars. At that time I had not reviewed my caboos...
Derrell Poole P.S., all; I am mulling over the information Hol Wagner shared with me. The short and long is that I am not dismissing that 2106 or a sister D&...
Derrell Poole I'm attempting to discuss the D&NO theory with Hol Wagner. I also have his Electronic Book and the chapter on C&S Cabooses. Apparently the...
Ron Rudnick I totally agree that 1782 was a former box car. Question? Does anyone have the measurements of the car set off at Como? The UP roster of 1885 ...
Derrell Poole UPD&G sg Cabooses existing as of Feb. 1891 - 1735 to 1745 (11) Built new at Omaha March 1891 - 1746 to 1751 (Correspondence - Record) ORER...
Robert McFarland What about the car paired with the Congdon stacked U&N Brooks-the car lettered for the Utah Eastern?Could at least one of the "dinky&quo...
Ron Rudnick Yes there is a chance that the "dinky" baggage cars were moved to Colorado. Amongst my numerous start ups, I have the frame and floorin...
Robert McFarland In Googling Utah & Northern I found a page done by UTAH RAILS that is a compilation of materials found in local papers about the U&N from ...
Derrell Poole Excellent information Ron - and glad to see you step up. Another demonstration on how contemporary information can "clarify" the validit...
Ron Rudnick Blackhawk, Idaho, the same place that the Eagle Rock shops are located As to some of your questions, about 10 years back, I shifted my interest f...
Jim Courtney Ron's Modeling Guides are excellent research sources for early South Park and Colorado Central rolling stock. Every C&S fan interested in the...
Ron Rudnick It is my opinion that the photo of U&N Caboose #1612 shows a former narrow gauge caboose now sitting on a broad gauge truck. Note how the whee...
Derrell Poole Well there was interaction of course both during and after the Joint Operation. But I've not found a single reason to suggest there was exchange o...
Mallory Hope Ferrell Thanks Darell and Doug. I spent some time today going through Sumpter Valley Ry photos. It is obvious that the SV acquired at least two former Uta...
Derrell Poole I don't understand why Doug's photo needs to be explained with regard to the DSP&P? The ORER indicates, prior to the possibility of SP cabo...
Doug Heitkamp Mal, Thanks for the info! I wish I knew more about the picture, but sadly I don't. Doug
Keith Hayes Doug, I dunno, but the proportions, windows and placement sure look like 1005 or 1008.
Jim Courtney OK, Keith, so I romanticized things a bit with a story! The point I was trying to make was that using caboose cupola windows was a common form of...
Derrell Poole It's a good argument Jim. It has always bugged me that they put that "trip-wire" at the corner of the cupola. Some one like me (the bigg...
Keith Hayes Studying the fleet pics today, I see that 1007 appears to have kept it's tip-toe boards on the side of the coupola until the end. I had not spie...
Derrell Poole I said I thought Jim's arguments were good. I'm not sure they are convincing. And I don't really know what any of the braces were for. Here is one...
Jim Courtney I'm not even sure that my argument is convincing! All that I'm saying is the diagonal "corner braces" vs. "safety rails" on...
Derrell Poole Well, preserving the well being of babies is far more noble than this endeavor - so don't knock it. Its just a matter of a sense about some things...
Jim Courtney I think that I can further undermine my own argument: Consider this photo, undated, from Narrow Gauge Pictorial VIII, Poole and Martin, Grandt ...
Derrell Poole It is a little difficult to be certain but I would agree that this car was more likely 310 if we assume the lateral walks next to the cupola were ...
Jim Courtney Thanks for the info, Derrell, useful as always. Seems par for the course for the early C&S modeler, that the only "official" C&am...
Derrell Poole Well, I've tried several times to determine when the folio drawings were devised. Perhaps someone who knows when the use of folios for RR equipmen...
Jim Courtney I look forward to Hol Wagner's new work. Just as I have basic medical textbooks in my library, I consider Hol's The Colorado Road to be one of my...
Derrell Poole A thoughtful Post Jim.... ...except for the blasphemy! "(He says, trying to remind himself why he chose not to model the RGS with its ...
Chris Walker "Ready-to-Run History" Now that made my goat laugh!
Derrell Poole Yeah.... when is your goat going to pitch-hit for Roper and give us a Blog article? Stay Feisty, Goat.
Keith Hayes Three bobbers lined up for outbound trains. 1005 and 1008 are nearest with 1009 in the distance. All three are oriented with the 'B' end facing...
Bill Uffelman Not seeing the referenced photo. Bill Uffelman  Ocean View DE  Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android From:"Keith Hayes [via C&Sn3 Discussi...
Rick Steele ... or at least the first 10 years of the C&S.... Hol's masterwork is over 2 million words long, without illustrations or photo captions. ...
Keith Hayes Jim, thanks for the folios. Consulting V VIII images, 1005 and 1008 are the two odd cars with respect to coupola placement relative to the B en...
Jim Courtney Your welcome, Keith. BTW I still promise to post some photos of P-B-L passenger truck modifications for my Overland coaches. I seem particu...
Jeff Young FWIW, after following this thread I’d also lean toward the braces providing the necessary stability for window functioning. It doesn’t take much ...
Keith Hayes This is a cross brace for lateral stability. No doubt (as Derrell surmises) it helps keep the window operable. The key is the fastener where the s...
Jim Courtney You've previewed Part 2 of my caboose dissertation! If I can get my @4#!*? scanner to talk to my new computer, I'm planning on posting a few more...
Derrell Poole Jim, I'm not particularly suggesting anything. I said it was "interesting to note..." perhaps suggesting that we all pay attention to ...
Derrell Poole I suppose it's my own fault for enabling the distraction by adding the fuzzy dice and dingle balls to the end my last "photo essay"; I'l...
Jim Courtney Derrell's Pop Quiz Answers Two main take away points from the long and excellent dissertation were: 1). Cupolas on pre-C&S waycars/cabo...
Derrell Poole By all means, post your dissertations here, Jim. What better place? I think I've learned my lesson about opening doors number 2 and 3 when door nu...
Darel Leedy Duh. Dissertations make great blog posts.
Derrell Poole I guess - look at the numbers, D...
Mallory Hope Ferrell Al of the Utah & Northern caboose photos were used in Colorado Rail ANNUAL (crrm) No. 15.
Robert McFarland I've seen a picture of a Utah&Northern 8-wheel caboose in some material on the U&N on the UTAH RAILS website that looked something like th...
Jeff Ramsey I looked at the Utah Rails website but could not find it. Can you post a link?
Robert McFarland The photos I found are on the Mountain West Digital Library site involving material owned by the Utah State Historical Society.-try typing in uta...
Chris Walker Just trying this from Bob's cryptic links, U&Np-2 http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm/ref/collection/USHS_Class/id/10708 U&N p-12 htt...
Jeff Ramsey Thanks guys! Cool and interesting U&N images.
Bill Uffelman Those are great photos. I was a Sumpter Valley guy before I got into the CC/DSP&P and pre-Alpine Tunnel closure C&S. Much of the SV equipm...
Chris Walker Does anyone else read that image of the waycar 12 as lettered Utah Eastern Railroad ? I hadn't noticed that until now as I was just thinking ...
Robert McFarland The car is lettered for the Utah Eastern, but the photo indicates that it was taken at Eagle Rock,Idaho(now Idaho Falls)in1885,on the U&N line.
Derrell Poole I've not heard of a Doddridge Reefer car - not that I recall anyway. Sounds like an interesting topic. The UP brought a number of narrow gauge...
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