Eight wheel Caboose on C&Sng?

[Derrell Poole]

A thoughtful Post Jim....

...except for the blasphemy!

"(He says, trying to remind himself why he chose not to model the RGS with its 12 volume encyclopedia of information)".

Where's the fun  of modeling a RR that has all the answers figured out for you? Isn't that kinda like Ready-to-Run history? How many duplications of O-Fear loop do we need? I could model the 1930s C&S very easily. I don't because the ground is hard and challenging over on the 1910 pasture and the rewards are very fulfilling - specifically because we either don't have the answers or many of those given to us don't hold up to scrutiny. When all the answers are given to you all you can do is harp about how many of them you actually know (aka as a knit-picker fest!).

Your observations of the posts to this thread got me curious. Never mind the posts, look at the views. This topic is by far the most popular - 2848 view as of this writing. I went back and added up all the views from any topic that spoke about C&S cabooses. The total views in 8 topics is 6237....

Do you think we LOVE our Bobbers? It appears to me that we are hungry to understand this topic. And I think this is one to be converted into a Blog Book. Personally it has been a very rewarding discussion; I learned a lot and I hope everyone else did too. It ain't our fault there are so many unknowns - I think we've done a noble job of making the most of what we do know. And I think another dynamics has been made apparent - you can thump the books and raise the dust in the files 'til you choke but when you get into dialog with like minded seekers it all seems to come together. Well. At least as much as it can - more than I had before...

It ain't over, either.

[Chris Walker]

Derrell Poole wrote

Where's the fun  of modeling a RR that has all the answers figured out for you? Isn't that kinda like Ready-to-Run history?

"Ready-to-Run History"
Now that made my goat laugh!

[Derrell Poole]

Yeah.... when is your goat going to pitch-hit for Roper and give us a Blog article?

Stay Feisty, Goat.

[Keith Hayes]

Three bobbers lined up for outbound trains. 1005 and 1008 are nearest with 1009 in the distance.  All three are oriented with the 'B' end facing away from the camera. As near as I can tall the 5 and the 8 were the only ones with the coupola on the 'B' end.

The nearest one has glass and is weathered: all three now need sound and lights.

[Bill Uffelman]

Not seeing the referenced photo.

Bill Uffelman 

Ocean View DE 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

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From:"Keith Hayes [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum]" <[hidden email]>
Date:Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 6:18 PM
Subject:Re: Eight wheel Caboose on C&Sng?

Three bobbers lined up for outbound trains. 1005 and 1008 are nearest with 1009 in the distance.  All three are oriented with the 'B' end facing away from the camera. As near as I can tall the 5 and the 8 were the only ones with the coupola on the 'B' end.

The nearest one has glass and is weathered: all three now need sound and lights.

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[Robert McFarland]

An article by Jason Midyette in the latest B&L  said that he believes the car on the ground in Como is C&S SG caboose no.10560 quoting the roster in Hol Wagner's "The Colorado Road".It says the car was retired 4/1935 and moved to Como for use as an office after the Roundhouse addition burned.

[Chris Walker]

In Derrell's picture of a C&S Bobber #1002:  http://c-sn3-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Eight-wheel-Caboose-on-C-Sng-tp488p1918.html 

In the background is a huge wastedump which I figured was around the Lincoln or Salisbury Mine properties at Stanley Mills above Idaho Springs.   I had wrongfully dismissed my own thoughts that the picture was taken at the Newhouse/Argo Tunnel.   Looking at the progression of pictures taken by Lachlan McLean and others, I now believe for certain that is the true location indeed.

In the background behind that caboose is a mine track with loaded Minecars visible upon it.  This oddity fooled me at first, given the Newhouse/Argo brought out waste rock or ore and dumped either on the wastedump or into the the bins, or later the Argo Mill.  The tunnel was at a considerable height above the C&S siding trackage so why would there be loaded Minecars at trackside? The nearby Salisbury, Lincoln and Stanley properties all had tramways and dumps but none really fit this location.  It wasn't until I rediscovered the photo taken at the Stanley showing the Roadlevel Tunnel and another view of the Newhouse/Argo that led me finally to this correct conclusion.  

Dead in the centre of Caboose 1002 shows what appears to be a Buda switchstand but conveniently without a mast and target.  Was that target photoshopped out for clarity on the caboose details? Am I confusing Caboose frame details with a switchstand?  Odd!  There also was the concrete wall lower down in the photo that could have been added as protection for the downstream abutment for a footbridge seen in other photos taken at the Newhouse/Argo, that would most certainly fit with there. Looking closely at DPL Z-2797 shows a very large round boulder between the Sw-St and the Footbridge, a similar boulder is also visible in behind the concrete wall in Derrell's 1002 picture.  The powerpole behind the switchstand is visible in both photos.


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/67651/rv/singleitem 


This following picture reproduced in the Smith/Wieler book Secure the Shadow: Lachlan McLean on pg39, was taken earlier but similar to the DPL X-61683  http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/38917/rv/singleitem  and shows the tramway behind the C&S passing track and Mainline beside Clear Creek.  Note that tramway connects the trackage of the Argo Tunnel on the dump by use of an incline.  

I am thinking that any inbound carloads of Ore to the Argo Mill from other Mines were handled via this arrangement on completion of the Argo Mill.  Maybe this will pin the date of Derrell's picture of #1002 to that of after the Mill construction.


From Secure the Shadow: Lachlan McLean Smith/Wieler Colorado School of Mines, on pg39

The 18" gauge tracks can be seen in this Otto Perry shot of the #69.

http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42303/rv/singleitem/rec/94

[Chris Walker]

And a little more digging showed that there was no erasure of the Switchstand targets, they just weren't there in later years after LC McClure stood atop the Newhouse Dump for his fantastic panos of I.S. (see DPL MCC-4843.)  This must have been an oddity, a mainline switch without targets?


http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/16683/rv/singleitem/rec/69


http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/36550/rv/singleitem/rec/16

[Jim Courtney]

This is fascinating, Chris.

I always envisioned the string of coal cars on the Newhouse/Argo siding as empties, waiting to be loaded at the bins or mill.  It never occurred to me that they were delivering ore to the mill.  And transported uphill via mine tram incline at that.

Idaho Springs really is a jigsaw pussle isn't it; and the picture your trying to complete changes every so years.

Jim

[Chris Walker]

That's right Jim,  Idaho Springs is absolutely fascinating.  

The Coalcars loaded with ore at the Newhouse show up in the MCC-4843 and were talked about in reply to your comment here http://c-sn3-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Pipes-on-Flats-tp2980p2994.html  Now in that photo I'm certain it is pre-Argo Mill and therefore the ore loads are outbound as the 18" ga Incline comes later.  There are also Coal loads at the Powerhouse as well for comparison :)

If you look into this picture http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/38917/rv/singleitem on the leftside are some (now covered) bins for exporting ore as well, these being uncovered in the Lachlan McLean photo in my previous post.  

It just goes to show that the details of I.S. are very time period distinct and in a constant flow of change.... much like the C&S Locomotive fleet.

[Chris Walker]

Another late view of the Incline in the above discussion, the string of Flatcars is interesting, most likely for scrap rails.


photo courtesy of the Library of Congress   http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsa.8c01066/

[Jim Courtney]

Any idea of the date of the photo, Chris?  The flat cars have little to no legible lettering.

Jim

[Chris Walker]

May 1941

Photo title (incorrect) Pile of tailing from gold mill, defunct. Idaho Springs, Colorado, which we know to be the waste rock from the Newhouse Tunnel construction.

[snapped_bolt]

  Hi

   This interior decor color choice seems to be an antique harvest gold, influenced heavily by the cigar-smoking period. Is this paint a match for the bobber caboose color?

     Stan

[Chris Walker]

Just a little more to add in the location Views Dept. as spurred out of the memorybank by this recent Ebay sale.

Title says Sun and Moon Orechutes.

Isn't that Footbridge the ultimate kit-bash from spare(or old) rooftrusses?

compared with this Dec 21, 1901 Newspaper view of the Bertha Orechute.  




Yeah, I know: This Newhouse Tunnel/Argo information is spread out over several differing threads, but hell, life is short.