DSP&P Passenger Car Research

[Todd Hackett]

The door in the center of the side is consistent with photos of New York Elevated cars.

[drgwcs]

Matt Mihalo had sent me a link to some photos in of all places the Detroit Public Library. These are from a cross country auto tour called the Glidden Tour in 1909. While in Colorado they took a ride on the C&S and Argentine.







A couple of details that I noted on the 132-137 series with the decorative posts. They have the slat seats. The decorative side posts are also two dimensional with the ridge of trim only on the side. The plans show different and it is hard to tell from photos so it would have been a pretty good although wrong assumption.  

[Ron Rudnick]

June 11, 1878  Contract between Barney & Smith Manufacturing  Company and the Denver, South Park & Pacific

May 6. 1878,  Addition to contract:  "On same terms and conditions both parties this day agree to add to above contract the trucks complete and iron work for for additional  Excursion Cars at the price of Five hundred and eighty five dollars each"

[Dave Eggleston]

Jim, I'm not surprised those reside in Detroit--you have to look beyond local archives in these hunts. A photo of the Monterey & Salinas Valley in 1876, only the third of the railroad found, and amazingly all three part of the same panorama, was held by the New York Public Library 2400 miles away from it's location, and only found in about ten years ago.

Matt has been scouring archives country-wide over the past couple of years and is amassing a large collection of railroad photos, papers, and artifacts, not just from Colorado. He has the time, desire and focus to chase this.

[Dave Eggleston]

Ron, that is a fantastic data point to add! I am not sure if I was aware of this or not so will lean to it being news for me. Thanks!

On the broader topic of excursion cars and excursions, here's an article covering the first excursion on the new track up to the mouth of Platte Canyon on May 4, 1878, using engine #2, coach "Auraria," a boxcar and a flatcar--all "well filled." The freight cars were built by Hallack in 1874. From the Rocky Mountain News of 5/5/1878.



To have been there! At that time the South Park's goal was Fairplay but in less than three months the growing boom at Leadville would completely change the South Park's future.

[Keith Hayes]

Well this is a delightful thread that has shined a lot of light on some cars that heretofore have not received much attention. Thank you!

Anyone want to opine on the color of the stripes on the shades? Maroon, Forest Green, Olive or Blue? I am not thinking black or grey.

Having arched roofs, these cars are reasonably easy to model, with the challenges being the end platforms--notably the railings, those unusual arch bar trucks, and the shades.

[Chris Walker]

http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Early-C-S-Water-Tank-Paint-Schemes-tp3357p10920.html  was where John Greenly brought this Tour up, back in 2018.

I had this clipped for further use... should forensic anaylsis be needed.
Sunday 25th of July 1909 printing.


*
incidently the 25th of July 1909 date was when Louis Blériot made the first airplane crossing of the English Channel.

[Paul R.]

Interesting comparison there!!Paul R.

[drgwcs]

Dave Eggleston wrote

Jim, I'm not surprised those reside in Detroit--you have to look beyond local archives in these hunts. A photo of the Monterey & Salinas Valley in 1876, only the third of the railroad found, and amazingly all three part of the same panorama, was held by the New York Public Library 2400 miles away from it's location, and only found in about ten years ago.

Matt has been scouring archives country-wide over the past couple of years and is amassing a large collection of railroad photos, papers, and artifacts, not just from Colorado. He has the time, desire and focus to chase this.

Matt has indeed found some "unconventional" sources and found some neat stuff. As a bonus I really enjoyed rooting through that auto tour- not C&S but some fascinating stuff there. Since the loop was advertised around the country there is probably no limit to where photos wound up. I have been amazed by some of the C&S and other narrow gauge stuff that has showed up here on the VA/NC line in some auctions and a couple of dealers.

[Dave Eggleston]

Jim, I respectfully, as a researcher, have to disagree with defining sources as "conventional" or "unconventional." Sources are sources and all are opportunities, we just have to open our eyes to looking beyond what we know at this moment.

Given that I'll say that Matt finds many unexpected items in very "conventional" places--meaning archives, personal collections and ebay. How? His advantages are time and an insatiable appetite for information. He shares, then listens for details, corrections,  then he pushes forward--and shares more. Not just a share of a photo with a caption but often his take on it to drive some discussion. In the process he hears about leads to other sources and refines his eyes to spot things others don't see or know about, and finds what others haven't in sources any of us could chase, a surprising number being online. His network of contacts is always expanding.

None of this is unusual in research, what to me is unusual is the speed at which he's unearthing material, which I'd argue is greatly aided by a very effective use the internet to leverage his hunt. No rock unturned is the best I can describe it.

[drgwcs]

Dave Eggleston wrote

Jim, I respectfully, as a researcher, have to disagree with defining sources as "conventional" or "unconventional." Sources are sources and all are opportunities, we just have to open our eyes to looking beyond what we know at this moment.

Given that I'll say that Matt finds many unexpected items in very "conventional" places--meaning archives, personal collections and ebay. How? His advantages are time and an insatiable appetite for information. He shares, then listens for details, corrections,  then he pushes forward--and shares more. Not just a share of a photo with a caption but often his take on it to drive some discussion. In the process he hears about leads to other sources and refines his eyes to spot things others don't see or know about, and finds what others haven't in sources any of us could chase, a surprising number being online. His network of contacts is always expanding.

None of this is unusual in research, what to me is unusual is the speed at which he's unearthing material, which I'd argue is greatly aided by a very effective use the internet to leverage his hunt. No rock unturned is the best I can describe it.

Perhaps unexpected might be a better word.

[Mike Trent]

In my view, either is equally appropriate. Let's try not to get too far into the weeds. Thanks.

[Ron Rudnick]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the South park "Dolly Varden" excursion cars and the first excursions to Morrison in June of 1874.  This was at the time the South Park was receiving their first cars from Hallack
I recall that I have seen an article in one of the local papers reporting that one of theses first excursions was photographed, but can no longer find it in my notes
 

[Chris Walker]

Ron,
I'd mentioned one in 1874.  http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/DSP-P-Passenger-Car-Research-tp20585p20632.html

[Todd Hackett]

I posted this photo previously on a Forks Creek thread, but here's another shot of an excursion car that appears to be a flatcar conversion:

I made similar crops from both sides so it can be viewed in 3D.

While digging this one out, I came across few more excursion car photos on the Clear Creek line:

This one is probably early C&S taken on the iron bridge at Forks Creek. Note the Miller coupler.


Another one with a Miller hook coupler, this time at Silver Plume and dated July 28, 1900.


This is an early shot on the Georgetown Loop High Bridge, still lettered for Colorado Central - probably mid-1880s.


Another early shot, this on at Hall Siding between the High Bridge and the wood truss bridge (later replace by a turntable bridge).


A couple more on the High Bridge - the first probably mid 1880s (Congdon stacks on the locomotives) and the second probably 1890s (diamond stack).




These two are cropped from the same photo, which is probably late 1990s (McConnell stacks and everything lettered DL&G).

[Jim Courtney]

Great photos of "monkey tails" in the second and third photos!