DSP&P Litchfield Boxcar Plans / Photos

[Dave Eggleston]

Jeff, I'm slightly confused by referencing/linking the DPL Sunset photo (CHS-B221) in your first point about the car not moving on the C&N--which I agree it didn't run in service on that line. That picture is of the staging of the C&N construction at Sunset and it looks like 608 has been moved to the east down the old GSL&P ROW to make room for the tie stacks  and grading to come; you can see it over the top of 026552. I'd noticed some variation in photos showing where 608 sat next to 026552 and speculated 608 had been moved around at Sunset at some point for some reason. I am beginning to think it was moved out of the way, then moved back to the west of 026552 once the C&N track was in, roughly where it had been, where it sat until moving to Cardinal. Does that sound plausible?

[jason midyette]

For what it is worth...

Based on looking at all of these photos and my memories of Sunset, I would venture that the C&N did not actually move the two cars that had been the GSL&P replacement depot at all, they just built the new line around them.

From what I can tell the following seems to be true;

- The C&N depot appears to have been built in roughly the same location as the original GSL&P depot and the C&N's yards are in what appears to be the exact same location as the GSL&P's yards (west of the depot).

- The C&N performed a massive amount of grading and fill work in Sunset to accommodate its new line to Ward. The track to Ward crosses the creek on a curved trestle, runs between the new C&N depot and the two boxcars on a climbing curve as it heads back east, climbing the opposite side of the valley that it came into town on.  The photo of C&N No. 30 leading a train past the depot and the two boxcars in Jeff's earlier post (on page 385 of "The Switzerland Trail") shows that the grade the train is on, as well as the whole area around it (including the "hill" behind the boxcars )is new fill. This new track appears to pass right over the location of the original GSL&P depot, at an elevation several feet higher.

- In all of the photos the two boxcars (CC 026552 and DSP&P 608/UP 24152) are in the same orientation and alignment and appear to be the same distance apart. If they had been moved, I doubt the C&N would have made an effort to set them up the same way as they were.

In conclusion, I think that the C&N did not have to move the two cars, so they did not, they just left them where they were and worked around them. So, DSP&P 608's last trip in its own wheels was from Boulder to Sunset on July 8, 1893 (assuming that it was most likely moved by flatcar to Cardinal as this would require less effort that dragging it out and re-trucking it for the move)

This raises a couple of questions;

- Did the C&N use 608 and 026552 for any purpose in Sunset? (section house perhaps?)

- What became of 026552?

Jason Midyette

[Dave Eggleston]

Jason,

The original Sunset station was just west of the two grounded cars, it's foundation can be faintly seen in that flood picture I posted. The C&N depot is maybe a bit west of that, say 50'-100' or so. The GSLP "yard" was basically a passing siding that started a couple of hundred feet east of the depot and ran almost to the curve leading to the trestles built over 4 Mile and Penn Gulch. A crossover existed just west of the station, about 2/3 of the way up the passing siding. The station was roughly at the center point of the passing siding in those days.

I'd been thinking along the same lines as you, it makes no sense they'd move them, except if constrained by the grading of the line to Ward, and photos after its built show the grade running down almost into 608--it was a tight fit! I've been looking at photos of that end of Sunset, at the boxcars in particular, from the 1896-1899 period. In particular in DPL CHS-B221 which has already been shared shows the spot where 608/24152 should sit occupied by piles of ties. Zooming all the way in I only see 026552 and its lean-to sitting where they should, no evidence of 608 but a boxcar painted UP style placed just to the northeast (right) of 026552.

And then there is Boulder Historical Society 213-4-5 photo 2. https://boulderlibrary.org/cwjpgs/213-4-5photo_2.jpg



I believe this is a photo before the C&N was running, taken around or just before the time of CHS-B221. In the center of the photo you can find the boxcar with lean-to. No sign of 608 to its left (west), though it might be argued to be hidden I guess. But to the right partially blocked by the tree there is a boxcar that looks like an outfit car with the white painted fascia of a UP car and it seems to appear to be the same car as in CHS-B221. It has windows on the south side facing us, and of a style like those seen on 608. Given this, I'm not yet ready to say they didn't move 608, then move it back to get it off the old grade, now a road. It sounds crazy, but may have been necessary. Thoughts?

As to 026552, I bet it crumbled away or was destroyed sometime before WWII.

[jason midyette]

To edit my post above...

I showed the photos and such to my youngest daughter (who actually grasps abstract spatial relations, unlike me) and she quickly pointed out that while the two boxcars were in a similar position before and after the C&N was built, they absoulutely had been moved. At a minimum, the par have been moved north of their original position, across what was the GSL&P grade and closer to the hillside that the C&N grade is climbing.

Also, the C&N yards are a little north of the GSL&P yards at a slightly higher elevation, the C&N appears to have cut a little more into the hillside to level a spot for its yards.

Jason Midyette

[Dave Eggleston]

Interesting, and I'd agree with your daughter as long as we don't argue specifics (number of feet moved)! The viewing angles will always make exact location setting tough to pinpoint using photos. What seems important is that it does look like the cars were moved in 1897.

In photos from the earliest days there is a chinked-log house that is the east-most building on the hill on the north side of the ROW. The building to its left (west), ultimately with a nice covered porch and log retaining foundation, was directly across from the station, easily helping to place the station foundation and the boxcars in the post-flood picture. 608 and 026552 were placed directly across from the chinked-log house in 1893. The chinked-log house is seen in CHS-B221 and the tie piles are sitting on the old station's foundation and partially on where 608 was placed in 1893. What I have to amend, looking more closely at photos, is that the C&N station actually sat almost on top of, if not slightly shifted (by a few feet) eastward from the footprint of the original GSL&P station site. I had thought it was to the west of the old station--wrong. Those tie piles are partially sitting on it's future location.

To my eye in the two early construction era photos though 608 has been moved, 026552 appears to still be  almost exactly where it had been placed in 1893 and on this point we may have to agree to disagree. I think 608 was moved first, then after these two photos it appears 026552 was also moved, to the east out of the way of the east leg of the wye. How they preserved that ridiculous lean-to on 026552 during the move is open to speculation, but it appears they did. I suspect they moved 026552 just to the east of where we see 608 in those two early pictures. (A crazy person might speculate that when 026552 was moved 608 also was repositioned.) Where I differ with your daughter's assessment is that I am not entirely certain the cars ended up on the north side of, or directly on top of, the old GSL&P ROW, but either looks possible.

Overall, it looks like ultimately each car sat about 60' to the east of its original position and maybe a few feet to the north to make way for the station and the east leg of the wye. I'm a bit skeptical of how much further north they were placed given your statement about the trackage in Sunset. Comparing almost identical views from both eras, the C&N track is a few feet north (maybe 8-10' at most) of the GSL&P passing track, cutting a bit deeper into the slope and removing at least one staircase leading to a house, in response to fitting in that wye, and then the C&N track appears almost on the original GSL&P grade starting at the station. If anything, the track to the west of the C&N station looks more level than the original GSL&P track!

[Jeff Ramsey]