Coke Cars and Racks

[usairman737]

Did the roads of interest use any unique coke cars or gons with coke racks?  I have read that boxcars were sometimes used to transport coke.  Any such use on the "good RRS"?

Gerry

[Jim Courtney]

The D&RG's second series of drop bottom gons, the 800 series, was originally built with tall coke racks, with top doors and high roof walk.  The operating levers on the ends were even more complicated than those of the "longhorn" 700 series.

Somewhere there is a published Fred Jukes photo of a train departing Chama with a string of coke rack gons, c1910.  It is not on DPL, I've looked.

The only photo I have at hand is a distant shot of a freight approaching Cumbres Pass about 1906-1910:


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/72166/rv/singleitem/rec/1



The second car ahead of the rear helper is a coke rack 800 series car, I believe.


The South Park had some tall outside braced boxcars for hauling charcoal, but no coke cars that I know of.

[Jeff Young]

And what an interesting snow shed.  Is it open-topped?

[Robert McFarland]

There is a photo in MB1 of the D&RG/DSP&P joint yards in Buena Vista taken in the very early 80s showing some odd looking cars with racks on them looking like a pulpwood car.Could they be coke  hauling cars?

[Robert McFarland]

They're not finished with it yet.

[Jim Courtney]

Finally found the DPL reference for the photo above:


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/72166/rv/singleitem/rec/1


Fred Jukes photo, dated 1908.


One of the few photos of an 800 series coke rack car:

http://ngtrainpics.photoshelter.com/image?_bqG=5&_bqH=eJwrCnN3tkiqyi4w9fJ38i4zNy61dCrLKy.0TMy2MjG1MjK1MjQAAivPeJdgZ1sXVSOzIHfttKLUzPSMEu3kxKJiNbBMvKOfi20JkB0a7BoU7.liGwrS5WzmmuWSUhGenZmsFu_oHGJbnJpYlJwBABJ2I7Q-


O.T. Davis photo, Alamosa. Dorman Collection


Wonder if any of these D&RG cars were interchanged to the C&S?  Not sure if there was any industry in C&Sng world that would have used coke.

The coke racks were removed sometime between 1910 and 1915, thereafter the cars might well have just hauled coal and might have made it to C&S stations.

[usairman737]

Jim, thanks, but that car looks like a back-yard chicken coop my parents once owned.

Gerry

[Chris Walker]

Jim,
there is also a Monte Ballough photo showing a cokerack gon in a derailment somewhere in the Monero canyon.  Pg 156 Beyond The Third Rail. Not a great detail picture though.  I know you have a copy, perhaps you can scan it for us

[Jim Courtney]

Sorry Chris, I don't have that book.

Anyone have a scanned copy of that photograph?

[Chris Walker]

I was under that impression since you posted this picture, here:  http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/C-S-Cars-on-the-D-RGW-at-Marshall-Pass-tp7805p7858.html
However, my mistake since re-reading above post, I see it was outsourced.

[Jim Courtney]

Well, the car appears to be on a RIP track waiting for repairs. The far end of the roof seems to be partly torn off. Not sure if the side openings are part of the car's design, or also reflect damage.

For what it's worth here is a 1915 folio drawing (I finally found my copy of Sloan's book):




Robert Sloan, A Century + Ten of D&RGW Narrow Gauge Freight Cars . . .

[Jim Courtney]

My email budy, a fellow Sn3 modeler who builds first decade D&RG / RGS stuff, is frequent lurker on the forum.

He saw Chris Walker's request for the Monero wreck photo and forwarded a copy, along with a couple of others. He also corrected some of my misstatements about the 800 series coke rack gons:





First, the Monte Ballough photo, circa 1910, from “Beyond the Third Rail” (which Chris Walker asked about) is also in the Grandt Pictorial, v.III, pg.71.





Ferrell, Narrow Gauge Country, page 138.

There’s also this classic Jukes photo taken on the way to Cumbres pass, dated 1908, that shows a half dozen of the cars (one of several Jukes action photos that inspired me to model this period!).





Dorman, Chama / Cumbres, page 32

A less frequently seen photo from Chama yard (not credited to Fred Jukes, but of his time and place) shows a partial side view of one car, but also was apparently taken from the roof walk of another one.

There is a large scale drawing of the cars, reproduced in smaller format in Sloan’s book (2nd edition only, I think).  From the photos and the drawings, it’s apparent that the cars had roof walks but no roofs (they were gondolas, after all)!  The roof walks were supported and the sides braced by horizontal ribs that ran between the tops of the side posts (you can see the residue of these in the Monero wreck photo).  The sides were composed of 6 slatted panels — the 2nd and 5th ones were designed to slide horizontally, which allowed the cars to be loaded.  In the photo that you posted from the Salida RIP track you can see the two panels slid sideways, as well as some missing slats on the other panels. I’d guess that these things were quickly reduced to kindling in any kind of wreck, and susceptible to damage even in every day use. 

Sloan has 1918 as the date for conversion of these cars, and it seems reasonable to me.  That date coincides with a big change to the smelting processes at CF&I in Pueblo and their closing down of many older beehive coking facilities.  


Obviously, I mistook the "opening roof hatches" on the folio drawing. They are simply roof level levers, connected by rods to the center ratchet/pawl levers near the floor. This allowed workmen on the roof to close the bottom doors from roof level. The car beneath the photographers feet clearly show the high end levers, as well as an odd 3-board roof walk: Two skinny boards and a wider center board.

I also wonder about the load in the car at the right frame of the Chama photo. Doesn't look like coal or coke to me, more like posts or ties or mine props (reminds one of the pulpwood racks on the 2-foot SR&RL).

I suppose any number of commodities could be hauled in these critters besides coke--obviously coal, possibly lumber products. If the 700 series drop bottom gons were showing up consigned to C&S stations in 1923-24, perhaps the 800s, with racks intact, were used to haul coal in interchange with the C&S between 1910 and 1918.

[Keith Hayes]

Jim, amazing what is in plain view in these photos!

As with stock cars, there is no reason a coke car cannot haul other commodities so long as the weight limit is not exceeded. (I believe coal is heavier than coke, hence the racks).

I find it odd that the DB gons were bought in 1903ish and the coke racks removed by circa 1923 when the brief modernization program occurred and the 3 FM coal towers were purchased. Prior to install of these coal towers, I believe the loading door of the coal bins was above the side of the car, rendering the bottom doors of little use for railroad service. What consignees might have benefitted from this feature?

Also, I am curious how the roof walk was supported on the coke racks? Seems like a cross piece/ carline at only the post locations would result in an overly bouncy trip when traversing the car to set the brakes. Especially on the RGS.

[Jim Courtney]

Prior to install of these coal towers, I believe the loading door of the coal bins was above the side of the car, rendering the bottom doors of little use for railroad service. What consignees might have benefitted from this feature?

Note the coal trestle and chutes in the background of the Chama photo. The D&RG chutes didn't seem to have bins on the sides, well above the trestle rail, like the C&S chutes.  Coal would have been dumped through grates between the rails--no shoveling coal out of gons here!

I believe the D&RG had similar coaling chutes at Antonito and Sargent. Not sure what was at Durango before the coaling tower was erected.

[Jim Courtney]

Here is proof that the coke rack drop bottom gons were used to haul company coal, delivered on coaling trestles, and sometimes got into trouble doing so:


http://ngtrainpics.photoshelter.com/image?&_bqG=210&_bqH=eJzLNi31S7IMyU4xikhN9ooKqyryc9b1NQiLTHS1MjE3tTI1MLAyNAACK894l2BnW8e8kvy8zJJ8NTA33tHPxbYEyA4Ndg2K93SxDQUpdTZzzXJJqQjPzkxWi3d0DrEtTk0sSs4AANDlIL8-&GI_ID=



Dorman Collection. Undated, photographer unknown. Antonito.


A better idea of how the roof walk was supported by the open roof, and the end operating levers and rods.

The downward sway in the cars in the Jukes photo has been corrected in this particular car!

[Keith Hayes]

I stand corrected.

That car must have had some of PBLs new free rolling metal wheels!

[Jim Courtney]

Probably so, Keith.

And someone forgot to tighten the bolster screw. The near end truck fell off and is lying at the foot of the trestle!

[Keith Hayes]

Damn lazy modelling.

[Jeff Young]

He he... I didn't notice the truck on the ground in my first viewing.

Cheers,
Jeff.

[Chris Walker]

Jim Courtney wrote

Prior to install of these coal towers, I believe the loading door of the coal bins was above the side of the car, rendering the bottom doors of little use for railroad service. What consignees might have benefitted from this feature?

Note the coal trestle and chutes in the background of the Chama photo. The D&RG chutes didn't seem to have bins on the sides, well above the trestle rail, like the C&S chutes.  Coal would have been dumped through grates between the rails--no shoveling coal out of gons here!

I believe the D&RG had similar coaling chutes at Antonito and Sargent. Not sure what was at Durango before the coaling tower was erected.

Antonito chutes were indeed just like the C&S and required hand bombing from whatever car was used, there are photos showing Drop-bottoms on the ramp.  Durango had a long stage or dock.