C&Sng West End, Clear Creek Telegraph Poles

[Mike Trent]

Hi, inspired by Jeff Young's great work with his telegraph poles, I have decided to undertake a project to build ten poles for my Dickey layout that more or less follow C&S practices within the area. For those who may be interested, I will pull some information from our own archives and in a second post show pictures of my Dad's remnant of a pole that he and I recovered from the Clear Creek Branch in 1967.

To begin, I will repost four images you have previously seen, with some relevant comments, beginning with this one of Ed Haley standing next to a pole near Boreas.



The first item of interest to me is that given Ed Haley's height, which was about 5'8 in his later years, the height of this pole is about 20' high. Also, I believe we can assume that the crossarm is 6'.



In this closeup, note the cable looped near the crossarm. In the first image, you will see the cable it is part of on the left side. This was probably a guy wire, but could also have been a ground wire. (?) You can also see there are two wires, indicating this was a single line, as each line required two wires as has been previously noted.



In this third image, also of Ed Haley on another pole, we see that one of the insulators has either been shot off or stolen. Also, the diameter of the pole seems smaller than one would have thought, and there are no support braces securing the crossarm to the pole. Also, the pins which could have secured additional wires are clearly visible.



This photo again confirms the height of the pole at about 20'.

The next post shows pictures I took yesterday of the remnant of the pole we scavenged in 1967.

[Fred C]

Mike.
Excellent post! I lived for a while last summer near Glennwood Springs. I was intrigued by a few coal tipples following the old DRG grade
 There were a few telegraph poles still standing and one matched your pics. Funny thing was it was not on the C&S! Could it have been standard Western Union pratice? I wish I had taken some pictures.
Fred Cotterell.

[Jeff Young]

Oh, dang, I missed the lack of braces on the cross arm.  I'll have to go check Jefferson now....

[Jeff Young]

Whew.



Although the older line was indeed without braces:

[South Park]

The Highline was built for "local" service of facilities
along the new line, as the South Park already had through
wire to Leadville via Buena Vista from the original build.
Telegraph only requires a single wire (ground return), ....
this was two "wires", or separate circuits.  Early pole construction
set the crossarms into notches called "gains", and were set
with lags, instead of thru-bolts, with nuts and washers.  After
1890, X-arm braces became more popular.  When the SP
fell into UP control, the coms system was handed over to WU,
who maintained the lines and provided "services", in exchange
for the use of the right of way.  This gave WU service into the
smallest of towns and gave the RR access to areas far afield
of their AO.  There is a lot of historical "science" in those poles
and line hardware/construction, if one takes the time to learn it.

[Mike Trent]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Mike Trent]

Way back in 1967, my Dad and I salvaged a downed telegraph pole from the Clear Creek Branch, about  three miles East of Golden. Dad cut off the pole 30" from the top and cut off the crossarm ends so it could be displayed in our basement along with various other treasures he had collected over the years. I've dragged this thing around for the last 40 years or so, and here it is, a relic from probably 130 years ago, which may be of some value to our discussion.

The first picture shows the front. The crossarm is held in place with two lag bolts, no support braces. The pole is only 6" in diameter, the crossarm measures 2x4 ". The top is cut at a 45 degree peak. The insulators, placed there by my Dad, are set 11" from center. The spindles are original. The top of crossarm is set about 7 1/2" from the top of the peak.




The second picture shows the rear of the pole. Note the lag bolt on the right side which probably secured a cable for either a guy wire or ground wire. You will notice an indentation in the pole where the cable wrapped around it from the bolt.



The third picture shows the notched cutout in the pole for the crossarm.



The final picture shows the bottom of the spindle, the nut secured with the nail as was described in a previous thread. It also shows another view of the notch.



I hope this helps with details which are hard to glean in old b&w photos.

A thought occurred to me when I was determining the approximate 20' height of the poles in photos. At the time these poles were set off the flatcars that carried them for use, the length of those cars was probably 24'. So, these poles were probably 24' when new. At the time of abandonment, these poles on the West End were only about 50 years old, and still had life in them.

One other picture, familiar to all of us, showing the #71 and #69 with the dead #8 North of Dickey in 1938 shows electrical poles from Breckenridge, and, if you look carefully on the right, an old telegraph pole with dog ear brackets. It too, looks only 20' high, much shorter than the power poles. I've seen this picture a hundred times and never noticed that pole before.

[Mike Trent]

Jeff, I saw pics of Jefferson and knew you were right about your double crossarms and braces. I figured you knew that! Also of interest in your pictures are the height of the poles. Those look more like 30' poles. They were almost certainly upgraded from ancient times, unlike those on the West End.

And, SP, thanks for the correction(s). This is not my forte.

[South Park]

  Great pix, Mike.  Those insulators are 1870's vintage and this style was
not used by the DSP&P.  I am not that familiar with the glass of the CC.
The cob type pins are much newer ....  teens vintage and later.  The offset
lags, holding the crossarm in the gain is EARLY construction.  I have an
original arm from the Palisades area that a friend saved from some campers
that were about to burn it in their camp fire in the 50's.  Still has red mineral
paint visible, and has the offset lag type arrangement.  One of my prized
poletops is an original Ouray & Red Mountain Tel. Co. pole that ended up
at the bottom of Bear Creek canyon.  This stuff IS my forté.

[Jeff Young]

Futz.  Ain't no crossarm braces at Kokomo:



Nor were they ever upgraded:





I've got some poles to modify....

[South Park]

  The high line was always considered a local service
wire.  The WU main wires kept the original mainline
route to Buena Vista, where they moved to the D&RG
and went west to SLC.

[Jim Courtney]

Wow Jeff,

Thanks for posting the high-res copy of the photo of C&S 71 and 75 working upgrade at Kokomo. One of my favorite C&S images. This is the best copy that I've ever seen. Where did you find it?

Jim

[Jeff Young]

Dang, I can't remember.  The bottom one is from Bogies and the Loop.

[Mike Trent]

Here is pole #7 of the ten I am working on. Thanks to Jeff for the tip on Tamyia clear green for the insulators. I also used, as he did, clear blue blended with green to make turquoise.  One of the insulators in the picture is turquoise, although it's hard to tell. The 1/4" lag bolts are very small, but effective. My better half can't even see them. The insulators are San Juan (thanks, Doug), the lag bolts are Grandt. These are tedious to make, but effective.

The pole is 22' high, the crossarm 66". I still need to make some reinforcing poles for the bases. Glad I only have to build ten of these!

[Jeff Young]

Outstanding, Mike!

[Todd A Ferguson]

Jeff,

The cross arm being set into the dado on the pole will form a very strong and long lasting joint.  Then if it is reinforced with the lag screws it will last for many many decades...

[Mike Trent]

Right you are, Todd. This pole my Dad and I scrounged up had to have been around 80 years old at the time. Now, it figures to be around 130 years. Of course, the last 50 years, subject only to wear and tear of moving with me all over the place. And, of course, out of the weather....

[Doug Heitkamp]

Mike,

Those look great! Kind of like making trees - They just disappear into the scenery.