C&S moguls

[Fred 52]

Hi everyone

I need to find out which of the Moguls had an air tank on top of the loco. I know that #'s 21&22 . Did #20 too? I have seen a B-mann mogul with the #20 sporting one. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks
Fred C
Somewhere above Baldwin mines.

[Todd Hackett]

I don't think nos. 14 through 20 ever saw service on the C&S or were likely to have had their C&S numbers applied. You'd need to look up their UPD&G or DL&G numbers and look for pre-C&S photos to see how they were equipped.

[Rick Steele]

Hi Fred,

The 20 number on the Bachmann Locomotive with a boiler mounted air tank is a fantasy. According to the Locomotive Roster in Mal Ferrell's  book THE SOUTH PARK LINE. The locomotive Roster is on page 336-337. The locomotive that was C&S no. 20 (Brooks, 1882) was sold circa 1902, long before the application of the boiler mounted air tanks on the C&S locomotives.

Ref: THE SOUTH PARK LINE by Mallory Hope Ferrrell
(c) 2003 by Hundman Puclishing, Inc.

Library of congress No. 200310416

ISBN no. 0-945434-58-8

 
According to George Coleman:

The C&S B-3-B class consisted of two Brooks Moguls, 21 and 22. Yes, both had the boiler mounted air tanks.

The other C&S moguls that had the boiler mounted air tanks were the B-3-A class 11, 12 and 13.

Ref: Narrow Gauge Pictorial Volume VI by George L. Coleman
(c) 1986 Robert L. Grandt

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 85-90318

Hope this helps

Rick

[Fred 52]

Todd and Rick

Thanks guys. both answers will have me digging through my small library.

Fred C.

[Rick Steele]

Fred,

I shouldn't have said long before the application of the air tanks.

Looking at George Coleman's book, it shows a photo of the 22 hauling a train in 1900, with no boiler mounted air tank, it shows another dated 1904 with a boiler mounted air tank. So the 1902 sold date for No. 20 leaves the air tank question open to conjecture. I would bet that C&S No. 20 did not have one prior to being sold.

After all, if it was up for sale, why put the extra time and money into remounting the air tank when it could be operated without it having to be remounted?

Rick

[skip]

Fred,
It's not just tanks on the boiler, but the position of the tanks was different between the B3As, 11, 12, and 13, and the B3Bs, the 21 and 22.

Originally (early 1900s) the boiler mounted tanks were applied to both classes, but the tanks on the 21 and 22 were mounted forward toward the sand dome. The B3As, 11, 12, and 13 all had the tanks placed a bit more than half way back toward the steam dome.
A bit fuzzy, but a good direct shot of the #11 in Morrison is in Klinger's Clear Creek Memories page 223, shows the back-towards the steam dome position well. I believe that all three of the B3As had this position for the air tank originally. The 13 had this position through its life as attested to by lots of photos. The number 12 started with the tank back by the steam dome. See Kilinger's Platte Canyon memories page 14 for a Denver post photo that shows the number twelve in summer of 1914 with the tank in the "standard" B3a position.

The B3Bs 21 and 22 seem to have always had the tanks forward from several photos over the years.

In 1914-1915 there was a requirement to replace older headlights with electric and so generators were added. The first attempt on several classes of locomotives was to mount the generator just behind the headlight with a steam line running forward from the cab. While I am sure that the steam fitters were more comfortable with a steam line than the new-fangled electricity stuff, it turns out that a long steam line leads to leaks, condensation and other maintenance problems. So the generators were moved back toward the steam domes. Shorter steam lines. Longer electric lines. The B3Bs, had a nice space between the forward-mounted air tank and the steam dome. So that is where the generators moved on the 21 and 22.

The number 11 was scrapped early and I know of no photos during the electrification. But I suspect that it had a headlight-platform mounted generator like the 12, 13, 37, and lots of others. The 13 kept its headlight platform generator until it was scrapped along with its rearward mounted air tank. The 12 started with the same tank and headlight mounted generator as seen in Kilinger's  Platte Canyoun Memories page 14 photo mentioned above. But sometime afterword, probably based on the success of the B3B's mount, the 12 had its air tank moved forward and its generator placed between the tank and the steam dome much like the B3Bs. I have not found a direct side photo of the 12 in later years, but the new position can be seen in photos up through 1921. (And many thanks to you guys who on an earlier thread helped me see what was really on those photos of the #12 rather than what I though I should be seeing!)

I suspect that if the 11 and 13 had been overhauled rather than scrapped, they would have had the air tanks moved forward and the generators moved between the tank and the steam dome as was done on the 12. If anyone wants to take a PFM or Key mogul in HOn3 and just letter it as 11, or 13. than they would just need to claim a fantasy world where they were overhauled rather than scrapped and used into the 1920s. I suspect that all 5 would have ended up looking very similar.

Any comments/corrections welcome. I'm still trying to figure out just when all these changes happened and why.

Skip Egdorf
Los Alamos, NM

[skip]

Dang, Tom. I just saw that I fumble-fingered your name in my previous post. It's Tom Klinger! Sorry about that. Now why aren't you in all the auto-correct dictionaries???
Skip Egdorf
Los Alamos, NM

[Fred 52]

 Hi Everyone:

Before I get too far ahead of myself I will comment briefly about my #21. This loco has survived four trips via Greyhound and only lost a whistle and both the bell and my Ridgway stack coming off. Even though it's a little worn looking shE still runs and will find emplotment up Ohio Creek.

You know, you can teach an old dog new tricks which not a  dog but an Oldbear, which is my nickname.
If I need information on anything C&S related all I need to do is either ask or start digging through the thread list right here.

Thanks again
Fred C.