C&S caboose 1008 restoration - need information

[Richard Farmer]

My brother Bob and I are working to restore/rebuild C&S caboose 1008. We have started working making brake parts and have come to the lettering on the reservoir which tells when the system was last cleaned and greased. We are going to backdate the car to 1930’s and  trying to be as accurate as possible we are interested in knowing just where this car would have been serviced. I have a photo I purchased on eBay of 1008 but just can’t make out the word stenciled on the tank telling where the work was done. Would Como still have been maintaining cars in the late 1920’s/ early 1930’s or did the car go to Denver for service.
Because we couldn’t locate an 8”x8” cylinder /reservoir combination, like so many of the parts we have needed, we have had to make one. We now have all of the parts to put it together, collecting some of the common parts from The Georgetown Loop RR, Durango and Silverton, and a couple of good friends. Here is the result of lots of enjoyable work (not totally assembled or painted in these photos). We will

[Bill Uffelman]

Very cool!

Bill Uffelman

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 1:20:38 PM PDT, Richard Farmer [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

My brother Bob and I are working to restore/rebuild C&S caboose 1008. We have started working making brake parts and have come to the lettering on the reservoir which tells when the system was last cleaned and greased. We are going to backdate the car to 1930’s and  trying to be as accurate as possible we are interested in knowing just where this car would have been serviced. I have a photo I purchased on eBay of 1008 but just can’t make out the word stenciled on the tank telling where the work was done. Would Como still have been maintaining cars in the late 1920’s/ early 1930’s or did the car go to Denver for service.
Because we couldn’t locate an 8”x8” cylinder /reservoir combination, like so many of the parts we have needed, we have had to make one. We now have all of the parts to put it together, collecting some of the common parts from The Georgetown Loop RR, Durango and Silverton, and a couple of good friends. Here is the result of lots of enjoyable work (not totally assembled or painted in these photos). We will

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NAML

[Chris Walker]

Richard,
awesome work on that combination Cyl/Res

This is dependent on not only finding a Photo of X car but one taken on the Brk Cyl side and with clear enough definition.  Not an easy task.

I doubt C&S did airbrake work outside of Denver in the later years, especially after Como closed down, based on stencils I've been able to read. Leadville did keep up the painting and lettering of cars in the later years.
Our NZR practice down here is reflected in what I see in photos of C&S, the weight, bearing repacking and airbrake work is the only fresh lettering.  Very rare to find all done at the same time but it did happen.  Usually the date area will get a fresh black patch first on the underframe/cylinder, never seen it applied to a carbody on the C&S (NZR did).
(I'll update this with some checking if I find more.)

Edit:  I would have to conclude the Airbrake work would be done in Leadville after the mainline was abandoned, but can't find any Caboose shots post that date to confirm...yet.


One thing I noticed is that not all stencils have a legible . after DEN or RY and in 1928 photos the #1007,  also the  #1000 and #1008 photo in NG Pict viii shows repacked stencilling in line following the Car Number and has the stencil arranged

RPKD   C&S
DEN.  7  2    28

Repacked stenciling moved to the lower right corner of the carbody below the curved Grabiron in the 1930- pictures

An undated William Gibson photo in Mineral Belt 1 
 on #1008 the brake cyl carries (to my eyes) the DEN in older paint still clear, with the day mth yr in very fresh paint.

DEN  11
  25
      38

shows the carbody stenciled  (again, to my eyes)

RPKD DEN 10 2? 38  ? could be 5 or 9 no doubt on the 10.
          C&S RY


By comparison...



#1009 at Leadville in Mineral Belt V1 (again, to my eyes)
the brake cyl stenciled

   DEN
 10 8 38
C & S RY

The carbody is stenciled, the 13 could also be 15,

RPKD DEN 13 8 38
          C&S RY

*********

 EDIT:  We down here write the day/mth/yr always have, and the US writes mth/day/yr therefore I saw 13th Aug '38. I'm picking the above should read

RPKD DEN 10 8 38    can't be 13 or15
          C&S RY

*********


By comparison...
#1006 at Denver ca. 1937 Narrow Gauge Pict viii

has the following visible which I found interesting, and odd at the same time. What looks like chalked lettering but must have been painted on freehand not a stencil, below the road number.  12- 6- 3 5 
Painted on the brake cyl.  old paint but very clearly legible only the date in fresh paint(updated) with a clearly fresh black rectangle underneath. Interesting info compared with above on #1009 eh?

  DEN.
3  1  37
C & S

The carbody carried in fresh paint
RPKD DEN  3 1 37
       C & S RY

A later photo #1006 shows
 DEN.
3 28 38 (or 36)
C & S RY.

RPKD DEN.  4  5  39
          C&S RY

[Jim Courtney]

Richard,

This is the best photo of the air cylinder/reservoir side of caboose 1008 that I have:




When I purchased the photo, it was undated, said to be taken in Leadville, probably late 1930's.





I'll let Chris, with his eagle eye, decipher the RPK and air cylinder service dates.

To my eye the year on the brake reservoir seems to have been painted out with a swatch of black paint and a new two digit year added.  (19)35 ??  

Don't forget to add chalk marks when you're done painting . . .

[Chris Walker]

Jim's #1008 photo is the one I referred to above An undated William Gibson photo in Mineral Belt 1  
coming back into this after awhile and gazing at the Gibson Min Belt picture which seems to have better definition btw, I am confidant the stencil appears as being posted above.


DEN  11
  25
      38

However I am still not confidant on the repack dates as I mentioned in my initial post hence the Q mark.

I didn't specifically mention the black swatch as Jim pointed out having mentioned that routine further up, also the 11 appears to have bled or run as well.

Gotta have those chalk marks

[Jim Courtney]

Here is another variation, on caboose 1002, the center cupola car:


Como, 1930's


The reservoir has a simple narrow rectangle of dark paint and a date, no other lettering:

[ComoDepot]

I have come across several mentions that they did not, but that would have been at specific times, I have not come across any mention that this sort of work was done in Como but that of course does not mean it was not at some point.

It seems unlikely it would have been in the latter years due to resources.

[Richard Farmer]

This was taken in Silver Plume as found on 1006 several years ago. Is this authentic or added at some cleanup/ repainting.
Thank you for your help.
Richard and Bob

[El Gringo Grande]

I wouldn't trust this, and here's why based on what I know of the repaint history of 1006.

Sometime in the late 60s, the caboose was looking rather shabby, so some members of the Denver O scale club, went the the CB&Q shops (Rice yards) and got some paint donated. They went up and repainted the caboose as best they could (Including patching a few holes in the roof with empty beer cans created as they worked.) That's why the paint in the 1970s is not the right color, but that's what they had. To their credit, the paint lasted until the 80s when a shop owner in Silver Plume, (Tom Young, Charing Cross book store) did a more thorough restoration and repaint. Part of that was the car was lettered with the round C&S logo on one side and the older "block" scheme on the other. While I don't have a photo handy, I suspect that the older scheme was placed on the brake side, and the cylinder was stenciled to match. Further, the stencil letter does not match the style we see on the other photos, making me strongly suspect this was applied during Young's restoration and repaint. Could he have carefully matched the style and placement during the rehab? Certainly possible, but we'll never know. Tom allegedly committed suicide shortly thereafter and no photos or records of his efforts were recovered or saved.

Chris Lane

[El Gringo Grande]

A quick revision. I did a quick duckduckgo search and Kurt Maechner's blog site came up and had a remarkably similar story regarding the O scale club members. Like almost verbatim. Then I realized Kurt was quoting me on something I'd written on another blog (NG Discussion group?).

Man, when the mind goes...

But he also had a series of photos shared by Jim Pallow, that were taken by Tom Young. Worth looking at, as they might give some help with this topic.

Chris Lane

[Chris Walker]

I can commiserate Mr. Chris,  I find I too am now arriving at that Station like I was running old 626.

As for the #1006 stencil applied at Silver Plume, it could well be an authentic replica of the old lettering, I haven't yet delved that far over the past few days.  The later years on the C&S were all in a "bold" (Roman) number stencil, no variations noted yet.  And I still haven't seen a LDV. airbrake stencil fwiw. (yet).

Tom was very concise in his replication the only exception I can see on #1006 at Silver Plume in 1982 on the Button Herald side was the ampersand tail dot was too high.

Undated photo on Ebay now shows....

 DEN.         (somewhat faded)
 3  28  3?     (fresh and sloped upwards >10 degrees: I lean to 36, it could be 8, appears more 6.  Was this biennial?)
C & S  RY   (somewhat faded, no . visible)




In this later photo of #1006
(fresh on obvious black patch)

 DEN.        
 6  8  39    
C & S  RY. 

[Chris Walker]

Nabble shat itself when two similar file names go in the same post and posts one file twice. Hence two more posts.

Here's the full photo to go with the previous post

[Chris Walker]

and again...
I also find it interesting this image was taken in the repair tracks, the handbrake is released and the wheel is chocked, indicating to me this may just be after work done on the Brakes.

[Chris Walker]

Fwiw,
a Leadville post-abandonment stencil on the #1118, so the truncated C&S kept up with the maint. until s-g'ing the line to Climax.

Question to pose would be what was the interval between repacks and/or Brake Cyl. work to establish the last date stenciled, i.e. '42 or '43.  A dead cert. if the interval is yearly.  
Rick Steele should know this.

RPKD LDV 7 ? 41     ( 2 maybe?)
         C & S RY           ( no . )

[Chris Walker]

Some noted change to the "standard" Stencil font and size increased.  

Begs the question did Leadville follow suit?

DEN.     (black patch is all of the air res.)
12
30
40 C&S 

Jackson Thode photo Narrow Gauge Pict. VIII

DEN. 11
          16
          39

William Pennington photo Narrow Gauge Pict. VIII