C&S Passenger Car Lettering

[Jim Courtney]

Up until now, the only C&S passenger water slide decal sets, of prototypical accuracy, were the Thinfilm sets, printed in metallic gold, in all three major scales.

A couple of years ago Bob Stears did the artwork for C&S passenger lettering sets, that included lettering for turn of the century to late 1930s C&S cars: http://www.theleadvilleshops.com/product-page/cwdo-121-c-s-narrow-gauge-passenger-set




The Leadville Shops offered the lettering set as decals in only 1/4 inch scale, but in two colors: gold leaf and "deluxe" gold, a yellow paint. The pin striping and filigree rendering is fantastic.

I'm hoping to convince Bob and Doug to print me some S scale sets for my Overland Sn3 cars that are still bare brass after all these years.

Question is, which color should I request?  Does anyone know of written documentation as to the color of the lettering of the passenger cars over the years. My first guess would be gold leaf at the C&S inception (1898), later being converted to deluxe gold to save money.

Herb Danneman cites D&RG records showing gold leaf or "imitation gold leaf" lettering until January 5, 1925, when that narrow gauge changed the lettering color to "yellow paint".

If the C&S followed similar conventions, I would need "gold leaf" lettering for my 1902 and 1909 passenger trains, with deluxe gold for my 1920 train. But a few photos available suggest to me that yellow (deluxe gold) may have been in use as early as the first decade:




The lettering on the cars in this McClure photo from about 1908 looks to me to be dull, much like a metallic gold might appear under all that varnish. As do these cars c.1903:





But this train, stopped at Shawnee about 1905, looks to have a more opaque, brighter lettering color:





Perhaps our resident C&S passenger car expert, Ken Martin, has some hard evidence.

Lacking hard historical data, opinions are welcome, too -- what color of C&S decals should Jim use??

[nickgully]

Could you use Deluxe Gold (Yellow) for the decals, and then put a gloss coat on the older cars to mimic the shine?

[Ken Martin]

Jim,

I am sorry but I don't have any information on the color of the lettering.

On my models using Champ decals I preferred Delux gold as I can read it.

Regular gold fades into the green and I can't see it.

Ken Martin

[snapped_bolt]

   OK


     Not to muddy the waters further... but just when was "Dulux Gold" paint invented? Was is a derivative of "Deluxe Gold"?
     I am certain the C&S used "Dulux" as many railroads used this for passenger lettering.

     For sure either the gold, silver or aluminum-leaf type letters would be hard to pick out in a B&W image because of the camera angle, but a yellow-based paint would show up better at ALL angles. Of course going back far enough with film types, it would be nearly impossible to make out on a car side, similar the dark reefers that may have been yellow with black lettering. So it appears to me that any passenger cars photographed at the time of the "red" reefers would have this same issue of not being resolved properly by the camera. Therefore the passengers cars would have been done in "leaf"during that period, since no cars appear to be unlettered. So it would be nice to find documentation of which leaf was used before proceeding.

     Clear as mud?

        Cheers

         Stan

[snapped_bolt]

   Rats

          I found the "Dulux" line of paints came to be in 1930....


           Stan

[Rick Steele]

I found no "Dulux" or Deluxe Gold when I repainted C&S no. 20. I did not find gold leaf, either, but that it not surprising as Combine 20 was in MOW service for quite a while.

What I did find was a shiny gold paint that was heavily varnished to prevent fading. In Model Railroading a Metallic Gold would be a good representation. There is also a gold color that can be used if one is using an ALPS printer, but you should underlay it with Special Color White so that it does not fade into the woodwork.

I never found anything close to a yellow, either. It was definitely Gold in its C&S livery.

Rick

[Jim Courtney]

Thanks, Rick, this helps.

I'd thought about asking any of the folks that restored coach 70 at Idaho Springs if they found original lettering and the original colors as they stripped away paint.

So far, sounds like a metallic gold or "gold leaf" is the best bet.

[Mike Trent]

I'll try to reach Mike Horner on that. I remember pressure washing the trucks, and in the process determining they were green, and also finding green on the roof, enough to confirm what we'd expected, but I don't remember anything about the lettering. Todd might remember the lettering, if we discovered any.

I do remember yellow lettering on all the SG RPO and express cars in the 50's and 60's.

All of my models are in "Gold Leaf".

[Jim Courtney]

Care to post a couple of broadside photos of your On3 C&S passenger cars for "lettering" inspiration?

[Robert McFarland]

Has anybody seen the plans for C&S 41-43 in Nov-Dec NG&SL Gazette? Dan Windolf Rotary? Or the Cooke Consolidation somebody bought on Ebay?

[tonyk375]

Sorry mike, I've been out of town working and didn't check in on the site until this morning.  I was at Horner's all day yesterday and could have asked him.  I can forward on the request though.

[Mike Trent]

Mail & Baggage #13, and coach #76

The lettering was actually printed by Overland Models. But it is virtually identical to Thinfilm "Gold Leaf". I'm out of Overland decals, so I will use Thinfilm for an upcoming Baggage Car and Combine #20.

My color choice still remains Testor's "Dark Green" body and Rustolium "Forest Green" Trucks. Available at any Hobby Shop (Testors) or Home Depot (Rustolium)

[Robert Stears]

Fantastic work as usual!

I think I can help you out with gold leaf C&S passenger car decals.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 24, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Mike Trent [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Mail & Baggage #13, and coach #76

The lettering was actually printed by Overland Models. But it is virtually identical to Thinfilm "Gold Leaf". I'm out of Overland decals, so I will use Thinfilm for an upcoming Baggage Car and Combine #20.

My color choice still remains Testor's "Dark Green" body and Rustolium "Forest Green" Trucks. Available at any Hobby Shop (Testors) or Home Depot (Rustolium)

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[Mike Trent]

Thanks, Bob!