Black Hawk Turntable

[Fred H.]

Has anyone seen a photo of the Black Hawk turntable when it was located near the depot? I'm interested to see it if you do! (Can't find anything here or on the Interwebz writ large.) Thanks in advance. Anyone think it might have been similar to the turntable at Como?

[Dave Eggleston]

Fred, the best detailed that I've seen is in the Gilpin Railroad Era book, page 290. If you don't have this book, you should get it and the matching Sunset published Colorado Central book. And...start searching on Black Hawk or Blackhawk on the DPL digital collections. Good images of the yard area you're modeling in these three sources.

Here's the Gilpin book image:



Not sure why it's rotating the image, I can't get it to orient properly, but it clearly shows the ironwork framing.

That roof on the left is the hay warehouse; this is before the beer warehouse was put in (which happened after the turntable was moved). There are a few images of the turntable when it was moved to the edge of town later. I believe it's the same turntable.

Note also that the yard was bounded by a rough rocky outcrop, visible in other pictures and indicated on the Sanborn maps.

Three DPL images to look at, though none show the TT, are CHS.X4691 (looking down on the turntable location after it was removed, with the hay warehouse on the foreground right edge), X-2146 (right center edge is the hay barn and area where the turntable would be) and X-2032 (bottom right shows station and feed shop in C&S block-lettering days).

[Chris Walker]

The Black Hawk Depot location TT came from Golden, that was a Truss constructed of heavy Angles but not of the same design as the Romley TT.  The 3rd TT location at Black Hawk had a Plate Girder design. Both were 50ft'ers.

[nickgully]

Black Hawk



You can sort of make out the angles under the turntable.

-Nick

[Fred H.]

Thanks, Dave, Chris, and Nick. Appreciate the info and leads for follow up. It’s interesting to model in 1:24 (or as my friend Bernie Kempinski calls it “dollhouse scale”). I plan to build the turntable pit using a CNC router. Will do it either in one piece or two identical halves and mate them together. The CNC units I’m considering can cut up to three inches deep; one has a 33 x 33 table and the other 16 x 33. Was thinking about the smaller, but I could probably build some turntables with the larger and recoup the investment.

[Todd Hackett]

Here's a later (1928) view of the Black Hawk turntable with a girder bridge. Was this the same location?

[Chris Walker]

Mal Ferrell is turning over in his grave right now.

[Dave Eggleston]

Todd, not sure if I'm reading your post correct, the 1928 photo shows it in the final location, moved from the yard to next to the water tank near the original Blackhawk station (the old Gunnel Mill aka Fitz John Porter's "folly").

The turntable was moved to that location between 1895 and 1900.

[Chris Walker]

Note in this cool view the Engineer has just rolled onto the T.T., caught in the act of balancing the loco on the bridge; you can see the Engineer standing with his left hand up on the Throttle.  Note the near end rails are well up indicating too far forward; he'll need to bring it back a smidgeon, not as easy as it appears given the lag between steam getting to the cylinders, reducing just enough air in the brake cylinder and overcoming linkage theft, throw in oldman driver reaction time.  

Note there was no whisker stub track provided at this location in case of an over run. There appears to be a pair of rails placed ready to make the whiskertrack ahead of the loco; hopefully these will be put in before a recovery costs them time and effort.
Seems to me that this was an expedient shortcut done by the C&S; Romley's T.T. was on a mountainside and we all know how that "turned" out.

Also the Fireman is walking around behind the loco, to assist the push(which his Trainman mate is already in position for), and in front of the loco, another man appears ready to unlock the bridge as soon as it is balanced. I'm sure he is perplexed as too why no stub track installed there yet.  

The Turntable dance routine; ya gotta love it. Heaps of thanks to Todd for providing this view.

And to Kurt Maechner: "This is a photo of the turntable pit outside the west portal of Alpine Tunnel."
That is not a bumper; just the far end Whiskertrack cribbing to match the near end approach track level.

[Todd Hackett]

I figured that the guy on the push arm was already starting to push, but not that you mention it he does appear to be just resting against it. There isn't much room for him to move back to balance before that rear tender wheel is off the track.

Why is Mal Ferrell is turning over in his grave over this? I assume its a reference to something in his Gilpin book, but I don't want to take the time to find it.

[Chris Walker]

Todd,

"now that you mention it he does appear to be just resting against it."
if I had a tenner for every time I'd done that, I'd be flying first class to London and return.


Mal mentioned to me that he had searched for years hoping to find such an image, given the propensity for R.R. photographers to gravitate to watch that ritual, but to no avail.   and I also wonder about what he would say on the Brisbois picture.