Berlyn Sn3 C&S Stock Car Kits

[usairman737]

Does anyone have suggestions as to the possible use of these Sn3 C&S kits?  I understand they are over-scale for Sn3.  Is anything usable, or should I just trash all but the detail parts?

Gerry

[Keith Hayes]

Well, as I recall, according to Mr. Poole, you need to discard everything between the floor and the roof, which is really too bad, as that is where all the work is. Not only are they a few inches tall, but they may also be wide. Such a shame.

[Mike McKenzie]

Here's the link to Derrell's excellent stock car blog dealing with the Berlyn kits:

http://coloradosouthern.blogspot.com/2014/12/part-3-c-stock-cars.html

Mike

[Jim Courtney]

Hang on, now, hang on!

Let's not rush to conclude that the Berlyn stock car kit is hopeless, deplorable and irredeemable.

About 15 years ago, before I got turned on to first decade C&S models, I spent a bit of time reworking a Berlyn kit for the Phase 2 stock car, to see if I could produce a visually acceptable model of the car, though not an "exact" scale model.  By all means, if you want a model of closer dimension, follow Derrell Poole's lead in the link that Mike provided.

To me, the main reason for spending a lot of time modifying the kit is the well executed cast lower post brackets. They were different from the Phase 3 SUF cast lower brackets. I see no way to shave them off and apply them to scratch built sides of proper height.

I was aiming for a double deck version of a Phase 2 car, like this:


Best Collection, California State Railroad Museum in Grandt's Narrow Gauge Pictorial, Volume VIII, by Poole and Martin.


This is what I ended up with:






The model was originally lettered with the 1926 railroad Roman reporting marks, number and dimensional data when I completed it in 2001.

When my interest turned to earlier years, I considered selling my 8-9 freight cars lettered for 1926.  Even considered sending them to Leadville, if Keith might use them. But I just couldn't part with things that I'd spent so much time on. So a few weeks ago I started removing the lettering with my fiberglass eraser. I hope to mask off the door ways and space between the lower slats soon, give the car a fresh coat of paint, and re-letter it with the block Gothic name and numbers, followed by moderate weathering, c1918-1920. The car will likely be numbered as C&S 7075, the only Phase 2, double deck stock car acquired by Victor Miller in 1938, re-nmbered as RGS 7351:


Durango, May, 1948. Ray Hilner photograph, in McCoy, et al, The RGS Story, Volume XII


The modifications were focused on addressing the kit's major shortcoming ("tall-coming?").  The assembled stock stock car  is just too tall. The width isn't bad, just 0.015 wider over the end sheathing than the Berlyn Phase 2 boxcar, in S scale just 1 scale inch.

So, I did various things to lower the top of the roof at the outside edge of the roof, lower the top of the side fascia, and better match the roof walk height to the boxcars:

1) I carefully cut the top slat / fascia board / door rail from the two sides on either side of the door, by using an Exacto wide chisel blade, just at the top edge of the second side board, to cut through the vertical and diagonal posts. I then trimmed back the remaining posts flush with the bottom edge of the top vertical post bracket. Using a 14 inch mill file I got the three edges of the separated sides square and then carefully reassemble them with MEK. That fixed the too tall gap between the top and second side board.

2) Step one left the ends too tall. Using the blank end walls (without end door) from two kits, I used a razor saw to cut the top off the ends at about the lower edge of the cast on end fascia.

3) I made new end fascia boards from 0.015 styrene, with a shallower peak. I used a Grandt boxcar end door on the "A" blank end, as it seemed of proper height.

4) I made a new roof of 0.020 Evergreen v-groove siding with 0.080 grooves. The injected molded roof from the kit is thicker, almost 0.035.

5) I lowered the car on the trucks by filing off the bearing plates from the bolster on the under-frame and the truck bolsters.

6) Step 5 caused the coupler height to be too low, corrected by using Kadee #141 couplers with long underset shank.


The final product looks better, even credible to me, when compared to Berlyn Phase 2 and Grandt Phase 3 boxcars:


(Berlyn Phase 2 boxcar on the left. It, too, is undergoing repair, re-shopping and re-lettering)


The stock and boxcar lower sill edges should be the same distance above the rail, the stock car is obviously lower. The height of the top of the roofs is close, though the stock car roof edge is still a smidgen higher, about 0.023", or 1.5 scale inches. If I were to do it over again, I'd scratch build a new roof walk with shorter risers and thinner boards, and not use the roof walk from the kit.

Still, if the stock car isn't coupled to another phase 2 or 3 house car, the height is not that objectionable to me.

I'm considering building 3 or 4 of the Phase 2 Berlyn kits as cars c1909, without the safety appliances and with the original lettering, fresh and new. To that end, I purchased an entire lot of Berlyn stock car sides, ends and floors from an unidentified seller on eBay a couple of months ago. When the box arrived, the return address was for Hamilton, Montana. I'm pretty sure I have all of Derrell's cast off parts from his Berlyn kits, as he built his models to his specs.

BTW, those left over ends with cast on doors are a good source of Phase 1 coupler pockets, to convert the Berlyn 1908 Phase 2 boxcar to a 1907, Phase 1 boxcar.

Jim

[Robert Stears]

Spectacular work Jim.

 

 

 

From: Jim Courtney [via C&Sng Discussion Forum] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:25 PM
To: Robert Stears <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Berlyn Sn3 C&S Stock Car Kits

 

Hang on, now, hang on!

Let's not rush to conclude that the Berlyn stock car kit is hopeless, deplorable and irredeemable.

About 15 years ago, before I got turned on to first decade C&S models, I spent a bit of time reworking a Berlyn kit for the Phase 2 stock car, to see if I could produce a visually acceptable model of the car, though not an "exact" scale model.  By all means, if you want a model of closer dimension, follow Derrell Poole's lead in the link that Mike provided.

I was aiming for a double deck version of a Phase 2 car, like this:


Best Collection, California State Railroad Museum in Grandt's Narrow Gauge Pictorial, Volume VIII, by Poole and Martin.


This is what I ended up with (excuse the poor focus from my phone pix):






The model was originally lettered with the 1926 railroad Roman reporting marks, number and dimensional data when I completed it in 2001.

When my interest turned to earlier years, I considered selling my 8-9 freight cars lettered for 1926.  Even considered sending them to Leadville, if Keith might use them. But I just couldn't part with things that I'd spent so much time on. So a few weeks ago I started removing the lettering with my fiberglass eraser. I hope to mask off the door ways and space between the lower slats soon, give the car a fresh coat of paint, and re-letter it with the block Gothic name and numbers, followed by moderate weathering, c1918-1920.

The modifications were focused on addressing the kit's major shortcomings ("tall-comings?").  The assembled stock stock car  is just too tall. The width isn't bad, just 0.015 wider over the end sheathing than the Berlyn Phase 2 boxcar, in S scale just 1 scale inch.

So I did various things to lower the top of the roof at the joint to the side fascia, and better match the roof walk height to the boxcars:

1) I carefully cut the top slat / fascia board / door rail from the two sides on either side of the door, by using an Exacto wide chisel blade, just at the top edge of the second side board, to cut through the vertical and diagonal posts. I then trimmed back the remaining posts at the bottom edge of the vertical post bracket. Using a 14 inch mill fill I got the three edges of the separated sides square and then carefully reassemble them with MEK.

2) Step one left the ends too tall. Using the blank end walls (without end door) from two kits, I used a razor saw to cut the top off the ends at about the lower edge of the cast on end fascia.

3) I made new end fascia boards from 0.015 styrene, with a shallower peak. I used a Grandt boxcar end door on the "A" blank end, as it seemed of proper height.

4) I made a new roof of 0.020 Evergreen v-groove siding with 0.080 grooves. The injected molded roof from the kit is thicker, almost 0.035.

5) I lowered the car on the trucks by filing off the bearing plates from the bolster on the under-frame and the truck bolsters.

6) Step 5 caused the coupler height to be too low, corrected by using Kadee #141 couplers with long underset shank.


The final product looks better, perhaps acceptable to me, when compared to Berlyn Phase 2 and Grandt Phase 3 boxcars:




The stock and boxcar lower sill edges should be the same distance above the rail, the stock car is obviously lower. The height of the top of the roofs is close, though the stock car roof edge is still a smidgen higher. If I were to do it over again I'd scratch build a new roof walk with shorter risers and thinner boards.

Still, if the stock car isn't coupled to another phase 2 or 3 house car, the heigh is not that objectional to me.

I'm considering building 3 or 4 of the Phase 2 Berlyn kits as cars c1909, without the safety appliances and the original lettering, fresh and new. To that end, I purchased a lot of Berlyn stock car sides, ends and floors from an unidentified seller on eBay a couple of months ago. When the box arrived, the return address was for Hamilton, Montana. I'm pretty sure I have all of Derrell's cast off parts from his Berlyn kits, as he built his models to his specs.

BTW, those left over ends with cast on doors are a good source of Phase 1 coupler pockets, to convert the Berlyn 1908 Phase 2 boxcar to a 1907, Phase 1 boxcar.

Jim

Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA

 

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[Jim Courtney]

Thanks for the compliment, Bob. Coming from you, that is quite a compliment.

I've edited my post above with photos of better resolution. Seems a matter of emailing the photos from my iPhone to my home computer and attaching the images using the "large" size format. The images are then large enough to crop, edit and resize without losing resolution in the subsequent steps. One learns a bit more every day.

I'm with Keith, any chance your proposed "RPO/BAGGAGE cars #11 and 13 in laser cut acrylic" could be scaled out to 1:64?  Even if they are the early versions with end platforms, I could use one for my 1901 roster.

Since I can't ever decide which of the fascinating time periods of the C&S to model, I seem to be building locomotives and cars for three eras: Circa1901 (McConnell stacks, fancy lettering on passenger cars, inherited freight cars), c1909 (shotgun stacks, air tanks atop boilers, newer freight cars with block lettering) and c1918-1920 (transition from Como to Ridgway stacks, intermediate tenders, modern SUF cars with post 1916 safety appliances). Anyway, it's an excuse to buy more brass engines and kits / detail parts from The Leadville Shops. Be nice to finish some things before I die!

Jim

[Keith Hayes]

Here are a couple pics for comparison. The PII car is in the middle.


Too bad, as it is a great kit. I think I have two more. I may try Jim'Shore mods as described above.

[usairman737]

Jim,  Exactly what I was hoping for, many thanks.  Now, if somebody could only find a way to require only the two ends from the original kit.  Reason - I have an uneven number of Berlyn kits to modify.

Gerry

[Jim Courtney]

Contact Paul Vaughn at Precision Vintage Classics. Paul now markets the Berlyn line of plastic C&S freight cars. I'm sure he will sell you different extra parts from any of the kits.

Jim