Be a patron of the narrow gauge model building arts??

[Jim Courtney]

Even more good news, Dave!

As Ken pointed out above, three Pullmans built to plan 73A and assigned to the Utah & Northern (Advance, Security and Rambler), were also rebuilt in 1892 and also sold to the UPD&G, becoming coaches 174, 175 and 179.

https://www.midcontinent.org/rollingstock/CandS/dsp-passenger/U&N_pullmans.htm


Here is one of the ex-U&N Pullman coaches, along with the two ex-DSP&P Pullman coaches, on a Sunday School excursion at Morrison, in the mid-1890s:


From Digerness: The Mineral Belt, Vol. I

Note the 7 paired windows on the ex-DSP&P Pullman coaches and the 5 paired windows with single windows on each end on the ex-U&N Pullman coach. The ex-U&N cars would have served on the new C&S until early 1906 as C&S coaches numbered 144, 145 and 147.

Your in luck, as Bill Meredith is producing kits for both window styles (see up-thread). So now, your 1890s UPD&G passenger car fleet has grown to a potential of five coaches!!

I'll keep trying to find more kits for you to buy . . .

[Dave Eggleston]

Well, thanks for looking out for me, Jim!

You make a great point but also raise the great conundrum: balancing between what's interesting and what I really need--or actually have time to build!

One of the many joys of the Central City branch during the 1890s is it remained busy when other sections of the narrow gauge weren't. Along with the freight traffic opportunities, the physical limits of the switchback and realities of people opting to walk the mile up from Black Hawk seem to have limited passenger equipment on the mixed trains.  

For my layout's operations I've always planned for mixed trains, either with a headend car plus coach (a "modern" car or one of the earlier CC cars, 182 or 183) or a combine. A second "modern" car (one of the 14x cars) in the collection would add to variety between operating sessions. And allow for the occasional special passenger-only train. Hmmm....

[Jim Courtney]

For you On3 modelers of 1880s DSP&P, Bill Meredith is offering a custom built South Park Cooke 2-6-0 number 71 in its "as delivered" livery.  I just had to post photos of this gorgeous locomotive:






For info, go to: https://leadvilledesigns.com/

[Jim Courtney]

Bill Meredith has announced pre-orders for his Pullman project on his Facebook page:




To quote Bill directly:

"After some quiet burning of the midnight oil, I am now at a stage where I feel confident enough to offer the 4 styles of narrow gauge Pullman sleepers in HO, S, and O for delivery in September. The first set of hardware and roof design is complete and at the sub contractor as you read this. These cars are going to be simply superlative. In the coming days the correct 6' wheelbase trucks are going into design. I expect these to return from casting by late August. Custom 30" wheeled axles are being machined by NWSL. ETA. Sept 1st. Decal art is 80% complete too. It's time.

Each kit is comprised of precision laser cut wood, precision sawn cut wood, brass and nickel silver etchings, 3D printed ABS, injected plastic components and full lettering and glazing. The correct 6' wheelbase trucks are available separately. The design of the kit is such that should you want to add a detailed interior, you can very easily. The precision of the components and innovative design ensures a pleasurable build.

A thank you to all who pre-order. This is a huge help to me as it facilitates accurate planning. These kits are a labor of love but still a lot of work to produce. Thanks!"

No info on prices of the 6' wheelbase Pullman trucks in the three scales as yet . . .

[Jim Courtney]

One day later and Bill announces pre-orders of the 6'-0" wheelbase Pullman trucks in all three scales:

[SteveG]

Hey Jim,

Those all look amazing, but if I'm reading my Ken Martin set of drawings and your earlier post correctly, none of those survived on the C&S past 1906?

Given the dearth of brass or other models of later C&S passenger cars, seems a slightly less-than-optimal marketing decision.

But if it works, it ain't wrong.

My $0.02,
Steve Guty
Lakeway, TX

[Jim Courtney]

Yep, Bill's first phase of the Pullman program is for the cars pre-1906. Remember he is a DSP&P fan, with a layout planned for 1885.  Me thinks Bill wants some 1880's Pullmans for his layout, with sleeper service to Leadville and Gunnison.

However, a "Tourist Sleeper", numbered by Pullman 466, was also re-built as a first-class coach by Pullman and also sold to the UPD&G as coach 193 in 1896; in 1899 it became C&S 153, and finally C&S 62 after 1906; it survived until abandonment and was used on the scrapping trains as an outfit car: https://www.midcontinent.org/rollingstock/CandS/cc-passenger/coach_193updg1.htm

Bill plans to do the C&S coach 62 in the second phase of the Pullman project, along with the Business car 910 (rebuilt from one of the DSP&P  Pullmans, the South Park). Both will be useful to those who model the C&S anytime after 1906, including the Guty layout of c.1910.

I've also suggested to Bill that he consider a 3rd phase of the project, namely the RPO-Coaches 41-43. All three were identical, all were rebuilt in 1906 from DSP&P and UN Pullmans, all rode on the 6'-0' wheel base Pullman trucks. We need more C&S head end cars!!! They also would be useful for your c.1910 Como layout in HOn3.

So anyways, Dave Eggleston could use kits for the Plan 73A Pullman, the current Tourist Sleeper and the upcoming Coach 62 to model a total of six different UPD&G coaches in use between 1894-1898. His cup runneth over!

I have ordered one of the Plan 73A kits and a pair of trucks for C&S coach 178 to use in my 1901 passenger train. When phase 2 rolls around I will need a coach 62 and the business car 910 for my 1909 and 1924 rosters . . . and perhaps there will be a phase 3 with the RPO-coaches, who knows.

 

[Ken Martin]

Steve,

They survived on coaches 78 & 79 and of course on business cars 910 & 911 and 911's trucks still exist at Silver Plume.
And if you are doing the South Park Pullman kits you need the six foot truck.

Ken Martin

[SteveG]

Thanks, Jim, and Ken, for setting me straight. Now that I look at Ken's drawing of #62, I see that one window was blanked out, probably either for a toilet or stove.
Numbers 78 and 79 look like they had more significant rebuilding, in that the paired windows seem to have been replaced by more evenly spaced ones, and the clerestories seem to have been redone in a dissimilar grouping from the originals?
Always happy to have my understanding improved!

Steve

[Ken Martin]

Steve,

78 and 79 were not sleepers, they along with 59 were built by Pullman as coaches 18-21 for the DSP&P.  According to a newspaper article reprinted in CRA 12 they had the same truck as the sleepers. One car was dropped from the roster in 1890, 59 was down graded to a second class coach and 78 & 79 remained first class coaches.

Coach 62 was originally tourist sleeper #466 used on the D&RG and sold to the UPD&G in 1896.

Ken Martin

[pizlinard72]

I definitely look forward to 62 and 911. I sure hope that we in On3 will also get some head-end cars for our occasional passenger train.

[Jim Courtney]

Christian,

Don't forget that the Baggage cars 1 and 2 are planned for the end of the year or first quarter of 2023, offered in all three scales.

With one of the two-door baggage cars and a coach 62, a C&S passenger train can be modeled in On3:

[pizlinard72]

Jim, thanks for the reminder. It is great to hear that we will have a complete train. So while I wait for a No 8 and 69 to show up someday, I will build some cars to inspect the line in style.
Christian

[Jim Courtney]

Christian,

I know you've got your heart set on a C&S number 8, but there is a nice On3 number 9 currently listed:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295107375387?hash=item44b5c5311b:g:dlcAAOSw8tBi2yjo

This is the same model that Mike Trent runs on his layout.

[pizlinard72]

Thank you Jim
Much appreciated. My entry into On3 was a No 9 that I got about 20 years ago. Then I was able to expand with a PSC No 60 and an OMI 71. So I am very happy with what I have. The two models (8 and 69) are the ones I would like to add to my stable. Just turned 50 so I figure I have about 20 years to go in my hobby. I'm positive that someday something will turn up.
Best, Christian

[Jim Courtney]

Mike McKenzie and I have jointly sponsored Bill Meredith's Co-Op program to produce kits for the C&S baggage cars numbers 1 and 2 in Sn3. Leadville Designs has just announced that the project is a go!!

Bill has decided to produce the kits in HO and O scales as well:




Bill's plan is to produce a single kit to build either C&S Baggage 1 or C&S baggage 2. He hopes to have the kits complete and ready for sale for the NNG convention this Fall.

C&S baggage cars number 1 and 2 were nearly identical, varying in length by 1". The main difference was the number of clerestory side windows. Number 1 had 13, number 2 had 9:





Bill's kit will contain redundant clerestory sides and window overlays, to allow one to build either number 1 or number 2 (or buy two kits and build one of each!).

Bill is developing the correct C&S 5'-6" passenger trucks in brass, much like the 6'-0" Pullman trucks for his recent Pullman / Coach production.

To preorder in Sn3, go to https://leadvilledesigns.com/collections/s-sn3/products/sn3-c-s-baggage-cars-1-2-kit

[Jim Courtney]

Bill Meredith is planning the next Leadville Designs "Co-Op" project, the C&S 1902 coal cars (C&S 4246-4407) and flat cars (C&S 1078-1097). Also planned to be included in this project are the cinder cars that were re-built from the St. Charles coal cars.

It also looks like Bill is planning to include the 1897-1898 St. Charles coal cars (C&S 4000-4245) in the project, not sure if as part of a "bundle" of TOTC C&S coal cars or as a separate kit. I'll try to clarify.

Bill intends to offer the cars with art work and details for both the as-built and later 1930s versions of the cars with post-USSA grab irons. If you are interested in sponsoring these cars in any of the three scales, contact Bill at [e-mail]

[Dave Eggleston]

Jim, the St Charles cars are generally believed to have been originally yellow, correct? I recall seeing at least one article in the period papers mentioning how their color stood out from the rest of the stock and also a photo in Central City showing a car of lighter value. I don't know how long that color scheme lasted, do you? I'd guess at least until 1902, maybe 1910 for some?

[Jim Courtney]

Hey Dave,

First I've heard of yellow St. Charles coal cars.

There was a lot of surviving correspondence about the 4-board St. Charles coal cars delivered at the end of 1898, including changing the name to be lettered from "Colorado & Seaboard" to Colorado & Southern. They were ordered from St. Charles painted freight car red with lettering in "white lead":


Thanks again Doug Heitkamp


The appearance of the earlier 3-board St. Charles coals, delivered in February of 1897 to the UPD&G, are less well understood. The only two photos that I've seen are these:


Posted by Bod Stears on another thread.


Central City, photo from DPL


Both suggest the cars were painted a dark color with white lettering.

Are you thinking of the few coal cars owned by the F&CC that were painted yellow and lettered for several of the Cripple Creek area mining companies as a promotion by the railroad? I believed the Rick Steele discussed these cars but can't locate the thread just now.

If you have any info on the early St. Charles cars from newspaper records, please share!

[Dave Eggleston]

Jim, no, not the F&CC cars. It was a reference in an article to new cars in paint that stood out to the reporter. I stumbled on it last week while digging for info on the Buena Vista station during the 1890s and...now I can't locate it.

So with that, ignore my comment and question. If I can find it I'll share.