All-Steel Cars on the C&S?

[Keith Pashina]

The East Broad Top Railroad has many avid followers, and in recent years, the East Broad Top Foundation and Friends of the East Broad Top have done some amazing things. As part of recent efforts, they have been steadily scanning their extensive archives.

What does this have to do with the C&S?

Well, the other day, I was somewhat randomly perusing the online archives, and encountered a drawing labeled, “Narrow Gauge All Steel Gondola for Colorado and Southern Ry” – and in 3’ gauge! This drawing’s title block lists the Bettendorf Axle Co. of Davenport, Iowa, and is dated January 19, 1909. The EBT archives have this in the “East Broad Top Railroad Architectural and Engineering Maps and Drawings Collection.”

Further information can be found at the East Broad Top Railroad Archives and Special Collections. The file number of this drawing is “EBTF.2022.6.251”  The archive’s home page is here (https://ebtarchives.catalogaccess.com/home). The FEBT archives gave me permission to post a link to their file - you can view the complete drawing and decent resolution at this link. Here is their archive page with the drawing information:



The steel gondola drawing makes me wonder what other car construction was considered by the C&S back in the day?  After the C&S acquired the Gilpin Tramway in 1906, they probably quickly realized that the 2’ gauge ore cars had their own set of problems, and tended to sag in the middle ast he bolted-on wooden end platforms loosened over time. It appears that one proposed solution was to construct an all-steel ore car for the Gilpin Railroad, similar in general style to the other cars, but also somewhat larger, too. There is a drawing dated June 28, 1906, produced by the C&S of this car:




In addition to an all-new car, the C&S also proposed modifying the existing ore cars, but anchoring a 6” steel channel to the outside of the wood end platforms and metal hopper. Below is the drawing from the C&S that shows this, but I cannot make out the date on the drawing.




As far as I know, none of these three cars or modifications were ever actually constructed by the C&S.

[Jim Courtney]

Fascinating find, Keith!

Looks like a steel body on a standard C&S SUF. This would be the next logical step in the evolution of C&S NG car building. In January, 1909, the C&S car shops were in the midst of building the first SUF cars, the reefers. By November, 1909 they would have turned out the first 100 SUF boxcars. By the summer of 1910, car building would cease after delivering another 120 SUF boxcars and 50 each of the SUF coal cars and stock cars.  

Perhaps the plan above was a concept drawing for the next phase of car construction, with steel bodies on steel underframes. Or, perhaps it was just a BAC proposal, hoping for more business than just supplying underframes and trucks. Such cars would have completely replaced the last of the inherited freight cars, some 150 or so, much earlier than 1916-1920.  It would be fascinating if other plans for outside braced steel boxcars were to turn up! Alas, it was not to be.

The January, 1909, plan date is also ironic in a way. The C&S had been sold to the Hill Lines (CB&Q) the prior month. January of 1909 is when the new Q management showed up for work in Denver. They spent the first year integrating the standard gauge C&S/FW&D lines into the Hill Lines system (Puget Sound to Ft. Worth, TX).  Institutional inertia kept the narrow gauge car building plans going until mid-1910, when the Q management finalized their new business model for the narrow gauge divisions -- basically abandoning as much as they could, using any pretext. Thus died any idea of steel narrow gauge freight cars on the C&S . . . they already had more freight cars than they would need under the new regime.

[Monte Pearson]

Keith, You strike again, nice find.  

Mlp

[drgwcs]

Hmm you have me thinking. In my stash are two TT scale steel gons that I bought for a buck a piece at a swap meet. Their dimensions are very close to a C&S gon.

[Keith Pashina]

It would be worth periodically checking the FEBT archives. My understanding is the archives are vast, and a portion has been scanned so far. So, who knows what could turn up in the next few years?

In the FEBT archives, there are drawings for not only the East Broad Top hoppers, boxcars, flatcars, etc. but I think I recall two standard car drawings, also.  So, perhaps EBT was seeking business from others, or perhaps they were recognized as innovators in steel car construction and contacted by other railroads. The gondola drawing seems to be the only item in the archives at present, where the search terms for Colorado & Southern and its variants turn something up.

Jim, your thoughts on the C&S management's car program and timing are very interesting - thanks for sharing that.

You can be certain that if I find anything more on this topic that I will post it here.

I intend to submit similar information as a short article in the Bogies and the Loop. The chief difference is that I obtained publication permission to post the FEBT high-resolution in the publication, so hopefully they'll accept my submission and publish some better quality images of the drawing.

Have a great and thankful Fourth of July everyone!

[drgwcs]

I guess when you think about it of all cars to go steel the coal car/ gon would be a natural first choice if they had done it. They were beat up a lot more than other cars in loading and unloading.

[Ken Martin]

Keith,

The steel got drawing is interesting.

CRRM has both of the Gilpin drawings and I got both some years ago.

Looking at  the second Gilpin drawing it has a date of 7-25-06.

Ken