A Mystery Stock Car, Anyone?

[Chris Walker]

For a number of years I dismissed this as a S.G. car in the background, but on closer examination has all the size of a N.G. car.
Note the Box adjacent has only 4 Grabs visible above the Sill, if these are S.G. then they must have been of small proportions.

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll21/id/3660

[Dave Eggleston]

Per 1904 ORER, standard gauge stock cars 1200 to 1487 were 35.2 L x 8.3 W x 6.8 H, 25T cap'y.

[Chris Walker]

Thanks Dave.

Care to expand on the rational behind that, e.g. expediency perhaps.  

[Dave Eggleston]

I don't understand your question, Chris. Rationale behind what?

Most of the listed SG equipment on the C&S in 1904 was 36' or less in length per the ORER. Pretty small vehicles. Freight cars in the USA in the 1870s-1890s wood car period weren't all that big.

[Chris Walker]

Dave,

I was just wondering as to why the same size carbody on S.G. and why they chose to do that.  You probably have answered it for me.  I would have thought by the end of the 1890's that the proportions would have outgrown that of the new N.G. cars at the t-o-c as this is unfamiliar territory for me.
Initially I wondered if there was a order of new cars that were split across the 2 gauges in use, of the sake of expediency or were these former N.G.cars repurposed to S.G. to fill a shortfall need.  That "palace" paint scheme I have always associated with the S.G. btw.
I never did get Hol Wagner's book on the S.G. lines, at that time it was way beyond my interests, and didn't occur to me that there would be crossover or overlapping information regarding the N.G./S.G. interaction.

Thanks, I appreciate your comments.

[Dave Eggleston]

Chris, the SG component of the C&S and its predecessors is practically unknown to me, also. 1870-1900 narrow gauge is what interests me, however. I didn't look at Wagner, though I have it. It was faster to look at my ORER listings for 1891 to 1910, which show both the narrow and standard gauge cars owned. The C&S pages for 1899 to 1902 still show the UPD&G numbers on those cars but in 1902 note that they're being changed to the new 1200+ series. So it's possible to track the cars to their UPD&G 8000 and 18000 numbers (actually 1885 UP renumbering for some) and with time I guess looking at the car sizes you track them to the original SG CCRR or UP cars in the 1885 list and figure out when cars were added.

The SG roster of mostly 35' and shorter cars in 1902 makes sense. Wood frames severely limit cars size to something around 40' so until the advent of steel frames shorter wood cars were prevalent into the early 1900s, especially on fairly cash-strapped lines like the C&S. I'd need to dig out my copy of Jack White's book on American freight cars to verify these dates, but the ORER seems solid on this point for the C&S.

A split order is interesting but on both the CC and DSPP stock movement was pretty slim until it began to take off on the DL&G in the mid-1890s. But I don't think the DL&G increased stock car numbers when it did, they just ran more hours to move the traffic. It was the C&S that did the serious big stock car orders. So I don't think that a split order happened. But I could be wrong!

I had a similar experience to yours when I was first looking at pictures of the 1894 flood in Boulder. I thought that I'd found elusive CC narrow gauge cattle cars but no, they were standard gauge cars on close examination. Definitely bigger than the narrow gauge cars in the yards but not tremendously so, enough to fool the eye when not in proximity of a narrow gauge car.

[Tim Schreiner]

What kind of packages are in the foreground stacked?

[South Park]

  Those are a clay tile building material, often used in wall building,
much like bricks, but in much larger sizes.  Spokane still has a few
structures built with them.

[Robert McFarland]

Some of the small SG boxcars had horizontal car siding

[Robert McFarland]

Why did the C&S experiment with full size SG cars on NG trucks somewhat like the SG carbody at Como?

[Robert McFarland]

More correctly SG trucks with narrowed wheelsets

[Chris Walker]

Can a Bowler Hat be worn reversed?

[bcp]

I once read that the reason stock cars didn't get longer over the years like other cars was so a group of them would continue to fit at a stock yard's multiple loading ramps spaced for the original car length.

Bruce Pryor

[Jim Courtney]

I was just reading the January, 2021, online issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist, Running Extra .

An article on other uses of stock cars yielded this photo:




Evidently between 1907 and 1910 the C&S bought 614 of these standard gauge cars, designed for dual use as stock cars (in stock season) or for hauling coke. Notice the roof hatches for overhead loading of coke. The small wheels on the ends and the lettering above suggest that the cars had drop bottom doors built into the floor.

I've never seen a stock car with the block C&S monogram on the letterboard.

Too bad the C&S didn't have narrow gauge versions of this car -- would make a fascinating model!

[jim pallow]

   There was a Rock Island MOW car North of where I lived in Kansas.  It's inside height was barely taller than the 3000 Grande ng cars I used to bang my head on. It wasn't much wider either.  JP

[Al Pomeroy]

The thing I am trying to figure out with this car is the two hand wheels shown on the end of the car, with the diagonal rod to the outside corners. this is indicative of some kind of mechanism to do what I do not know. was there some king of dumping mechanism? Any ideas? I would think that if these were for bottom doors there would be more mechanical advantage in the mechanism. think about the levers used on the D&RGW drop bottom Gondolas.

Al P.

[Keith Hayes]

This is an interesting car indeed. Note what appear to be hinges at the midpoint of the doors. Could these be to help remove loose goods (coke) or to facilitate the loading and unloading of smaller livestock?

Seems to me that cattle are between five and six feet at their front shoulders and not as apt to bump their heads on ceilings as we humans.  Those of you who have mucked out a car know what I am talking about; those of you who have mucked out a sheep car really know what I'm talking about! I think the narrow gauge cars are the dimension they are in part because they would accommodate both cattle and horses, and smaller stock too on double decks. The design of this standard gauge car may be more influenced by the need to haul cattle and coke and less sheep, pigs, chickens and perhaps horses.

Al, I don't the rods you refer to are rods, but are instead handles. I think D&RGW longhorn cars will provide more clues to the operating mechanism. A photo of a car upsided in a wreck would help even more.

[Al Pomeroy]

Keith,

looking at again I think you are correct on the handle bit. tough to look @ when one is awaiting cataract surgery. I suspect this is a very unique design that wasn't duplicated. if enough info could be gathered would make a nice large scale modeling project.