Re: K to Como: Iron Horse Manure
Posted by Chris Walker on Oct 11, 2017; 6:10am
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Alpine-Tunnel-Glass-tp9540p9694.html
Well John,
I should have mentioned that the D&RG biggest standard gauge loco's at the t-o-c were the 1902 class 190 2-8-0's at 43,200lbs T.E. which is probably why there was no point in using the largest n.g. power on that line. The 3-rd rail only existed to allow transit of N.G. cars to the Smelters of Leadville and other traffic to a lesser extent behind more powerful S.G. locos.
What Jerry Day wrote you was indeed correct, but only for 1925 built K-36 locomotives. A couple of years after the removal of the 3-rd rail between Salida and Leadville. Again, that style of pilot plow wasn't seen on K-27's until the 1940's.
A class 125(K-27) occasionally were fitted with Wedgeplows that looked like this. This plow was 10ft 2in wide. The #09271 Plowgon assigned to Gunnison had a 9ft wide wedgeplow.
from the Collection of Robert D Stull
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/46734/rv/singleitem
Please note that this image shows the third rebuild of Cylinders on K-27 which had a width of 9ft 5-3/4", the same dimensions as were the Compound and Simple cylinder configurations.
Drawings of K-27 Wedge Plow photos and drawing can be found here, http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,237184,237228#msg-237228
Note the wedgeplows do not have a front coupler so the K would have to be towed backwards and that would not be a simple exercise as moving into a roundhouse nearby but be considered as Freight and billed as such if it was to be hauled on its own to Como on the C&S as you insist.
Distances:
from Leadville to Como via Breckenridge, 62.9 miles over two 11,000+ft passes with Blue River and Gold Pan trestles to cross.
from Leadville to Como via Buena Vista, 83 miles assuming Trout Creek wasn't washed out, circa 1910.
from Leadville to Salida, on home rails to large company shops, 60.5 miles.
I'm assuming this blockade you mention to enable this scenario is during Wintertime.
The first routing on C&S would also be fraught with snow clearance issues on Fremont and Boreas along with slide issues in the Tenmile canyon. The D&RG route which supposedly is blocked would be Brown's Canon, I don't see how snow would effect that part of the Mainline maybe rockslides, but since this is a S.G. line of importance I'd think priority would be given to restoring service before some broke-down narrow gauge loco would be.
I see what you are suggesting with the comparison of Rotary Snowplows vs dead K-27 weightwise.
That would be found in these figures as to the effects on trestles and roadway structure.
The D&RG 1889-built Rotary OM(I don't have the C&S Rotary figures) weighed 101,500lbs with a truck c~c spacing of 16ft 5in.
A K-27 had a total wheelbase of 24ft 6in carrying(superheated) 140,250lbs mty, the actual driver wheelbase at 11ft 5in carried 108,300lbs mty. These figures are excluding the Tenders of each.
The Rotary weight is spread over a greater area of track/bridge structure than the K engine and is somewhat 20 short Tons lighter to boot.
Looking at your pictures of the Doorjambs has intrigued me, the cutaways are staggered to fit the shape Not of a Rotary nor Wedgeplow. Has it ever occurred to you that in the post-Railroad use as a Sawmill, some oversized machinery could have been installed in the building?
One would be remiss if the very own C&S #74 with its canted slide-valves weren't considered or the piston-valved #75 #76. How about the CB&Q #537 needing adjustments made to the doorway?
Perhaps the doorways were circumcised many years earlier?
Lastly, there are two books written concerning the South Park C&S Enginemen's reminiscences neither those have any mention what so ever of the big news of a D&RG K in Como. Forrest Crossen's South Park Railroaders and Sam Speas Goin' Rairoading. Mac Poor also had some in D.S.P.& P.
As to exercising memory and people being mistaken:
NGDF poster Dave Grandt posted that (the well respected) John W Maxwell wrote to the well-known Cliff Grandt...
http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,235219,235432#msg-235432
"...seems #21 never got the Spark Arrester on the stack since she was only used on the Morrison Branch..."
Todd Hackett in reply, pointed out..."This photo at DPL disagrees." http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/searchterm/OP-6204
In the Iron Horse News issue #173 August 1993 Bob Richardson wrote this snippet:
Sources Used:
Dennis O'Berry The Mudhens D&RG Locomotive Folio Sheets
Robert LeMassenna Rio Grande to the Pacific D&RG Timetable No. 13 1881 for Mileages
Narrow Gauge Pictorial Vol-XII OM Folio Info
Mac Poor D.S.P.&P. Memorial Ed. C&S Station List for Mileages
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Alpine-Tunnel-Glass-tp9540p9694.html
Well John,
I should have mentioned that the D&RG biggest standard gauge loco's at the t-o-c were the 1902 class 190 2-8-0's at 43,200lbs T.E. which is probably why there was no point in using the largest n.g. power on that line. The 3-rd rail only existed to allow transit of N.G. cars to the Smelters of Leadville and other traffic to a lesser extent behind more powerful S.G. locos.
What Jerry Day wrote you was indeed correct, but only for 1925 built K-36 locomotives. A couple of years after the removal of the 3-rd rail between Salida and Leadville. Again, that style of pilot plow wasn't seen on K-27's until the 1940's.
A class 125(K-27) occasionally were fitted with Wedgeplows that looked like this. This plow was 10ft 2in wide. The #09271 Plowgon assigned to Gunnison had a 9ft wide wedgeplow.
from the Collection of Robert D Stull
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/46734/rv/singleitem
Please note that this image shows the third rebuild of Cylinders on K-27 which had a width of 9ft 5-3/4", the same dimensions as were the Compound and Simple cylinder configurations.
Drawings of K-27 Wedge Plow photos and drawing can be found here, http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,237184,237228#msg-237228
Note the wedgeplows do not have a front coupler so the K would have to be towed backwards and that would not be a simple exercise as moving into a roundhouse nearby but be considered as Freight and billed as such if it was to be hauled on its own to Como on the C&S as you insist.
Distances:
from Leadville to Como via Breckenridge, 62.9 miles over two 11,000+ft passes with Blue River and Gold Pan trestles to cross.
from Leadville to Como via Buena Vista, 83 miles assuming Trout Creek wasn't washed out, circa 1910.
from Leadville to Salida, on home rails to large company shops, 60.5 miles.
I'm assuming this blockade you mention to enable this scenario is during Wintertime.
The first routing on C&S would also be fraught with snow clearance issues on Fremont and Boreas along with slide issues in the Tenmile canyon. The D&RG route which supposedly is blocked would be Brown's Canon, I don't see how snow would effect that part of the Mainline maybe rockslides, but since this is a S.G. line of importance I'd think priority would be given to restoring service before some broke-down narrow gauge loco would be.
I see what you are suggesting with the comparison of Rotary Snowplows vs dead K-27 weightwise.
That would be found in these figures as to the effects on trestles and roadway structure.
The D&RG 1889-built Rotary OM(I don't have the C&S Rotary figures) weighed 101,500lbs with a truck c~c spacing of 16ft 5in.
A K-27 had a total wheelbase of 24ft 6in carrying(superheated) 140,250lbs mty, the actual driver wheelbase at 11ft 5in carried 108,300lbs mty. These figures are excluding the Tenders of each.
The Rotary weight is spread over a greater area of track/bridge structure than the K engine and is somewhat 20 short Tons lighter to boot.
Looking at your pictures of the Doorjambs has intrigued me, the cutaways are staggered to fit the shape Not of a Rotary nor Wedgeplow. Has it ever occurred to you that in the post-Railroad use as a Sawmill, some oversized machinery could have been installed in the building?
One would be remiss if the very own C&S #74 with its canted slide-valves weren't considered or the piston-valved #75 #76. How about the CB&Q #537 needing adjustments made to the doorway?
Perhaps the doorways were circumcised many years earlier?
Lastly, there are two books written concerning the South Park C&S Enginemen's reminiscences neither those have any mention what so ever of the big news of a D&RG K in Como. Forrest Crossen's South Park Railroaders and Sam Speas Goin' Rairoading. Mac Poor also had some in D.S.P.& P.
As to exercising memory and people being mistaken:
NGDF poster Dave Grandt posted that (the well respected) John W Maxwell wrote to the well-known Cliff Grandt...
http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,235219,235432#msg-235432
"...seems #21 never got the Spark Arrester on the stack since she was only used on the Morrison Branch..."
Todd Hackett in reply, pointed out..."This photo at DPL disagrees." http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/searchterm/OP-6204
In the Iron Horse News issue #173 August 1993 Bob Richardson wrote this snippet:
Sources Used:
Dennis O'Berry The Mudhens D&RG Locomotive Folio Sheets
Robert LeMassenna Rio Grande to the Pacific D&RG Timetable No. 13 1881 for Mileages
Narrow Gauge Pictorial Vol-XII OM Folio Info
Mac Poor D.S.P.&P. Memorial Ed. C&S Station List for Mileages
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