Re: More C&S caboose under frame stuff--other narrow gauge bobbers.
Posted by Jim Courtney on
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/the-caboose-that-never-was-tp8369p9455.html
In trying to wrap my head around this new (to me) idea that the original South Park caboose underframes were short, wheel base just over 6 feet, I wondered if there were any 1880's narrow gauge engineering concepts that were standard to four-wheel caboose construction.
The only other Colorado narrow gauge bobbers that I could remember were the D&RG 4 wheel cabooses. They were built to a Billmeyer and Small design, and were the D&RG standard caboose from 1876 to 1885:
D&RG 1882 folio drawing, from Sloan, A Century + Ten of D&RGW Narrow Gauge Freight Cars . . .
Colorado State Historical Society, in Grandt's Narrow Gauge Pictorial V
Chris will note that stowing tow ropes and chains by wrapping them around the underframe seemed to be a standard operating practice of the 1880s.
I can't see any standard relationship in the wheelbase (9' on the D&RG car) to body or overall frame length. The D&RG body was 16 feet as to 13-14.5 feet on the C&S. The overall frame length, over the end beams, was 20 feet, as opposed to the 17.75 foot frame length of the C&S short body cars.
Using a wheel base to body or frame ratio for the D&RG car (0.56 and 0.45) the same ratios for a 13 foot short body C&S car would have yielded a proportionate wheel base of about 7' 3" to 7' 11" on the C&S bobber. So if the original South Park underframes were really only 6' 3" wheel base, they were proportionately much shorter than their D&RG contemporaries.
The only similarities that I can see is to the "intermediate" version of the South Park under frame, as on the 306 photograph: Both had a 9 foot wheel base and a similar equalizer bar with central pivot. The C&S cars used paired coil springs on either side of the pivot point, in addition to the leaf springs over each journal pedestal. The D&RG cars lacked the center springs, using only the leaf springs over the pedestals.
Is it possible that the UP shops used the D&RG standard underframe as the inspiration for the 9-foot "intermediate" underframes that were added to some cars before 1899??
-----------------------------------------------------
As an aside, my friend Geoff Hamway has emailed me that he has decided to stop being just a "lurker" here and has actually joined the Discussion Forum. Well, Geoff, here's an opportunity for your first post. How about sharing a photo of your beautiful Sn3 TOC D&RG 4-wheel caboose? As I recall, you used an Overland Sn3 C&S caboose underframe in the construction. Can you tell us how you modified the "modern" C&S undercarriage to the D&RG version, as it is similar to the earlier TOC C&S version??
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/the-caboose-that-never-was-tp8369p9455.html
In trying to wrap my head around this new (to me) idea that the original South Park caboose underframes were short, wheel base just over 6 feet, I wondered if there were any 1880's narrow gauge engineering concepts that were standard to four-wheel caboose construction.
The only other Colorado narrow gauge bobbers that I could remember were the D&RG 4 wheel cabooses. They were built to a Billmeyer and Small design, and were the D&RG standard caboose from 1876 to 1885:
D&RG 1882 folio drawing, from Sloan, A Century + Ten of D&RGW Narrow Gauge Freight Cars . . .
Colorado State Historical Society, in Grandt's Narrow Gauge Pictorial V
Chris will note that stowing tow ropes and chains by wrapping them around the underframe seemed to be a standard operating practice of the 1880s.
I can't see any standard relationship in the wheelbase (9' on the D&RG car) to body or overall frame length. The D&RG body was 16 feet as to 13-14.5 feet on the C&S. The overall frame length, over the end beams, was 20 feet, as opposed to the 17.75 foot frame length of the C&S short body cars.
Using a wheel base to body or frame ratio for the D&RG car (0.56 and 0.45) the same ratios for a 13 foot short body C&S car would have yielded a proportionate wheel base of about 7' 3" to 7' 11" on the C&S bobber. So if the original South Park underframes were really only 6' 3" wheel base, they were proportionately much shorter than their D&RG contemporaries.
The only similarities that I can see is to the "intermediate" version of the South Park under frame, as on the 306 photograph: Both had a 9 foot wheel base and a similar equalizer bar with central pivot. The C&S cars used paired coil springs on either side of the pivot point, in addition to the leaf springs over each journal pedestal. The D&RG cars lacked the center springs, using only the leaf springs over the pedestals.
Is it possible that the UP shops used the D&RG standard underframe as the inspiration for the 9-foot "intermediate" underframes that were added to some cars before 1899??
-----------------------------------------------------
As an aside, my friend Geoff Hamway has emailed me that he has decided to stop being just a "lurker" here and has actually joined the Discussion Forum. Well, Geoff, here's an opportunity for your first post. How about sharing a photo of your beautiful Sn3 TOC D&RG 4-wheel caboose? As I recall, you used an Overland Sn3 C&S caboose underframe in the construction. Can you tell us how you modified the "modern" C&S undercarriage to the D&RG version, as it is similar to the earlier TOC C&S version??
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
Poulsbo, WA
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