Denver NNGC Notes: Tiffany Reefer Colors (again!) -- UP Standard Reefer Green??
Posted by Jim Courtney on Sep 05, 2017; 2:23am
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Denver-NNGC-Notes-Tiffany-Reefer-Colors-again-UP-Standard-Reefer-Green-tp9330.html
In the last few minutes of the Caboose 1008 Restoration Clinic, Randy Hees of the Nevada State Railroad Museum couldn't resist reopening the can of worms that is the color of the South Park Tiffany reefers.
Randy freely admits that there is no surviving physical evidence, in terms of wood/paint samples, to know what color theses cars truly were. He related an eye-witness report, from an individual that he trusts, that the Tiffany body used as a shed in Leadville had as its first coat of paint a yellow color. The "Tiffany shed" was bulldozed down quite a few years ago.
However, Derrell Poole, in one of his published articles, reports reading AERs for the C&S 1901-1903 Tiffany reefer rebuilding program, which clearly stated that all the Tiffany reefers were completely re-sheathed at that time. So the yellow on the Tiffany shed account only proves that the C&S painted its re-built Tiffanys with yellow sides, as in Konrad's beautiful On3 model.
Randy Hees suggests, that from 1883 until about 1900, the Tiffany cars were painted in a standard UP reefer green scheme. He flatly stated that there is no record of UP reefers being painted yellow prior to 1900.
Not a "moss green" or "mint green" as others have suggested. Not the green color that others have associated with "Tiffany Green", as the color had nothing to do with the Tiffany patent. Rather a very, very pale green, almost an off white or light beige with a green hue.
Randy's premise is that since the UP owned/controlled the South Park from 1883 until 1899, the cars would have been painted a -standard UP refrigerator color. UP freight car "Paint Cards" were prepared by a paint manufacturer (Sherwin-Williams) that supplied the paint for the UP system in the 1880's and 1890's. These paint cards included Pantone numbers.
This is the paint card for UP system reefers, regardless of type or patent:
The Pantone number for the green side sheatings and ends was 617C (I obtained these numbers from Randy in a discussion after the clinic):
The darker green on the upper side (and presumably end) fascia was Pantone 392:
Because many photos show a darkly contrasting roof / upper side fascia compared to the sides, it is also possible that the roof and fascias were painted in a mineral red, Pantone 483C:
I dunno, it's hard to argue the logic of Randy's premise, based on the historic information regarding UP paint standards. That green is a bit icky looking, but would be interesting to paint on a late 1890's DL&G Tiffany model.
As an aside, Randy also showed us a UP standard paint card for boxcars of the 1880-1890 period:
I always understood that those black rectangles, under the reporting marks and numerals, were paint masks, used to obliterate the older, pre-1885 lettering (ie DSP&P, C.C., Kansas Central, Utah and Northern, etc). But according to Randy's research, they were a standard UP system painting convention, also applied to newly constructed cars at the factory, when built.
Who knew?
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Denver-NNGC-Notes-Tiffany-Reefer-Colors-again-UP-Standard-Reefer-Green-tp9330.html
In the last few minutes of the Caboose 1008 Restoration Clinic, Randy Hees of the Nevada State Railroad Museum couldn't resist reopening the can of worms that is the color of the South Park Tiffany reefers.
Randy freely admits that there is no surviving physical evidence, in terms of wood/paint samples, to know what color theses cars truly were. He related an eye-witness report, from an individual that he trusts, that the Tiffany body used as a shed in Leadville had as its first coat of paint a yellow color. The "Tiffany shed" was bulldozed down quite a few years ago.
However, Derrell Poole, in one of his published articles, reports reading AERs for the C&S 1901-1903 Tiffany reefer rebuilding program, which clearly stated that all the Tiffany reefers were completely re-sheathed at that time. So the yellow on the Tiffany shed account only proves that the C&S painted its re-built Tiffanys with yellow sides, as in Konrad's beautiful On3 model.
Randy Hees suggests, that from 1883 until about 1900, the Tiffany cars were painted in a standard UP reefer green scheme. He flatly stated that there is no record of UP reefers being painted yellow prior to 1900.
Not a "moss green" or "mint green" as others have suggested. Not the green color that others have associated with "Tiffany Green", as the color had nothing to do with the Tiffany patent. Rather a very, very pale green, almost an off white or light beige with a green hue.
Randy's premise is that since the UP owned/controlled the South Park from 1883 until 1899, the cars would have been painted a -standard UP refrigerator color. UP freight car "Paint Cards" were prepared by a paint manufacturer (Sherwin-Williams) that supplied the paint for the UP system in the 1880's and 1890's. These paint cards included Pantone numbers.
This is the paint card for UP system reefers, regardless of type or patent:
The Pantone number for the green side sheatings and ends was 617C (I obtained these numbers from Randy in a discussion after the clinic):
The darker green on the upper side (and presumably end) fascia was Pantone 392:
Because many photos show a darkly contrasting roof / upper side fascia compared to the sides, it is also possible that the roof and fascias were painted in a mineral red, Pantone 483C:
I dunno, it's hard to argue the logic of Randy's premise, based on the historic information regarding UP paint standards. That green is a bit icky looking, but would be interesting to paint on a late 1890's DL&G Tiffany model.
As an aside, Randy also showed us a UP standard paint card for boxcars of the 1880-1890 period:
I always understood that those black rectangles, under the reporting marks and numerals, were paint masks, used to obliterate the older, pre-1885 lettering (ie DSP&P, C.C., Kansas Central, Utah and Northern, etc). But according to Randy's research, they were a standard UP system painting convention, also applied to newly constructed cars at the factory, when built.
Who knew?
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
Poulsbo, WA
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