Re: Desperately Seeking Signals: The Saga Of The Train Order Board

Posted by Chris Walker on Nov 03, 2016; 11:00am
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Desperately-Seeking-Signals-The-Saga-Of-The-Train-Order-Board-tp6678p6752.html

John Droste wrote

Yes Chris,
I should have been more considerate perhaps.
I am not sure what is going on there, thought it could be a "rack" on the end of the baggage cart but the vertical bars seem to go all the way to under the depot eaves. Way way above head hight to be loading up baggage that high.
What do you think is going on there? Look like London Junction window to you?

I have often wondered about the guy in the foreground facing the camera, hands seem to be in pockets. Who is he?
I believe that I have seen him in several photos. With his foot on the pilot plow of the 209 in front of the Pacific Hotel. Walking in front of the camera away from the engine that seems to be derailed on the second or third track in front of the depot. Also in another show in front of the depot near the 'vestibule.'
He must have been the station master or something?
Seems to have a similar stance in each photo.
Don`t ask me to find the photos. The one where the engine seems derailed is in the DPL, I remember. Snow on the ground.

John

Nope, no way do I see a Bay Window.  
It looks like behind the end-racks of the Baggage wagon which only go to about head-height by the way, there is no Stormcloset over the first door as we see in the last years of operation, thus Door/Window/Door/Window in quick succession just like was shown from the opposite direction in the Greg Kazel collection photo, the 4th picture of Como in the First Post of this thread.

I thought you knew the Como Depot better than anyone-else?

and I bring your attention to an edit to the info in this previous post concerning your CRI&P questions.
http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Desperately-Seeking-Signals-The-Saga-Of-The-Train-Order-Board-tp6678p6744.html

As for Depot Loungers, there are a hundred ways of striking a pose waiting for a train and they all look the same, except at 2AM.  The glare of the Headlight at that time seems to make them shy away.

I think I am at risk of belabouring the point here, so the last time.

John Droste Wrote: Sorry, but I could not understand the significance of presenting the image of the Union Station and the German House!
I posted Mal's picture as an illustration of the very first signals controlling the 19th Street crossing.  If anyone else has a photo of such early signals I'd very much like to see same.
This is the first such Early West picture I have seen of such signals.  Note these are the forerunners of Semaphores of the types we know today but Paddle boards with a lamp.  
In both photos presented of 19th Street, there are a number of key features that were cross-checked by the Sanborn Map.
The lodging establishment is the actually the "Sherman House", and shows in both pictures, serves as a "locator", to key the intersection into both pictures and the Map for the viewer.


Another major facet of the inclusion was to show the distance from the 19th St. to the Tower of the new Union Depot where WHJ took the photo of 19th and Wynkoop.  
I also included the WHJ picture of #42 on the Kenosha grade with Webster in the background and an enlargement of the Webster Depot in the valley below.
I've used Google Earth to find that the distance in the Webster picture is some 1400-1500 feet away depending where on the curve above the valley the Mason Bogie was stopped, and from the Centre of Union Station to the corner of Wynkoop and 19th is just under 1000 feet.  
My eyes easily spotted the TOBoard on the Webster Depot, but can't make out any signals in the UP/KC/D&RG trackage in the background NOR any type of Signal on the end of the building you're claiming to be the prescient Como Depot.
At this distance one can clearly see the Stovepipe on the building roof, the diameter of which couldn't be any more than 12inch most likely 9inch.  
If you look at all the trackside pictures of a TO Board presented at in the initial post of the thread, correlate the size of the banner or paddles against the Brick Chimneys present on such Depots and the distance above the ground in relation to the track.

Railroad Signals are by design, of proportions sufficent to ensure Clear and Concise indications are presented to the Train crew.  These must be able to be recognized at some distance to permit safe operation, after all that is why Signals were developed.


John Droste Wrote:
On the other hand, I do believe this is a TOB in this photo
I do not take it as a coincidence that I would find what looks like a Station order board in the location where I was expecting to find it.
Although I accept that the railroads in question did not have TOB`s along country stations for some time. I do have to question procedures in Denver.
Could it perhaps be that the TOB as I see it in Denver was not to divert trains into the spur but to stop trains on the 3 rail in Wynkoop Street?

I really must be blunt here and say you're grasping at straws perhaps imagining this Signal based on the fact that these were indeed most common, a defining icon of narrow gauge Depots that every model railway has.  You desperately need to see the signal to back up your theory therefore it must be there.
Both Rick Steele and Jim Courtney have provided descriptive narratives to my photo essay on the exact use of the TO system, something I can't relate to as it wasn't used here as such, a system that was the forerunner to the modern Track Warrant Control to which I drove trains under.

We have tried to point out that there seems to be no rationale behind the location and for use of a signal that you see.
Can you explain just how this fits into operation as you see it given for at least the next 5 years there won't be any out on the DSP&P, CC and D&RG lines in the very places that this type of Signal was invented for.

Plain and simply put, your vision is just a bit ahead of the times.

Good Night.