Re: C&S on the D&RGW 3rd Division

Posted by Keith Hayes on Jan 18, 2015; 8:18pm
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/C-S-on-the-D-RGW-3rd-Division-tp194p283.html

I don't know that I have the book that is mentioned.

Derrell is correct that the Flying Grande herald dates to about 1939, which I why I chose that year to model. It was a busy year on the Grande--the narrow gauge passenger trains were rebuilt and debuted in 1939, the flying herald appeared and the steel tank cars were on the line. Also, I believe the 'sunrise' RGS herald appeared about this time. Others can fulminate over the exact dates, but the broad application of the flying Grande herald did not occur until the 40s.

The C&S ceased operations on the Gunny District prior to WWI, and the D&RGW pulled the third rail between Salida and Malta (below Leadville) in 1925. This was right after delivery of the K-28s, for those who care. The Rio Grande always--always--assigned the heaviest power to Marshall Pass. C-19s, K-27s, 36s and 37s all started their careers on Marshall to protect the CF&I gravy train of coal flowing between Crested Butte and Salida, and the limestone between Monarch and Salida (except when they flipped the 36s back to Marshall at the end). If you want to model big time narrow gauge railroading, I suggest the late 1920s Marshall Pass, and Mr. Pat Student is the expert here. I doubt the 3rd rail north of Salida was revised such that K class locos could operate to Leadville. But enough about the Evil Empire.

After 1911, the only way interchange could happen is via the Salida-Malta connection. It is plausible that prior to 1925, interchange between the D&RG(W) and C&S occurred. Given that the Arkansas Valley Smelter is located in Leadville, it seems reasonable to me that coal and ore from the San Juans could easily be consigned to this location. The area around Crested Butte contains deposits of anthracite coal, one of the few outside Appalachia, and this is important because it burns both hot AND clean (remember those Phoebe Snow rhymes?) Jerry Day has reported that Baldwin coal was a favorite of several particular customers, and there are photos of solid trains of drop-bottom gons coming off the Baldwin branch. I don't yet know enough about the particulars of the Arkansas Valley Smelter (later American Smelting And Refining COmpany and finally ASARCO) to know what kind of ore they processed at Leadville and what kinds of coal they used. It was a big operation though and consumed a lot of carloads of stuff.  As I understand, an agent would prefer to consign a home road car for a load to a foreign road, as there is money for the home road in that; next they would prefer to get the foreign road car off the home road to avoid lease fees. Perhaps Mike and Rick can enlighten us on the NG applications of this practice.

I share all this because it makes sense for me to place a D&RG(W) NG car in Leadville, and I could see a D&RG box car with bullion or refined ore (it would be to valuable to ship in an open car) even make it to Denver. A scenario where a C&S car would travel to Crested Butte is more difficult. The AVS would receive some coal or ore from a C&S mine, the car would be spotted among D&RG gons, and when it was time to return the gons, the C&S car would be part of the cut, perhaps mistaken for a 9000 series D&RG gon. Alternatively, a shipper could consign product from Denver to Crested Butte via the C&S, like the 'mine on a flatcar' shown in Idaho Springs. Anything could be possible.

All the Miller Cars were shipped from their loading point in Denver at the Rice Yards on SG to the RGS. I am unsure whether these were consigned to Ridgeway or Salida.

At Leadville, narrow gauge cars from a number of roads intermingle in the yards.