Re: Draft Layout Plans: Black Hawk C&S / Gilpin Tram
Posted by Dave Eggleston on Mar 04, 2025; 9:43pm
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Draft-Layout-Plans-Black-Hawk-C-S-Gilpin-Tram-tp20518p20545.html
Jim,
I'd be not so quick to say the photos are conclusive evidence the flume was rebuilt. Why? Something just doesn't feel right in the details of those valuation photos when compared to other photos of 1937-1940.
The problem is the flume washout created a distinct landscape that clearly shows in railfan photos dated from mid-1937 through 1940. These railfan photos clearly show bad devastation--the flume is blown out, the depot has its ramp bridges across the open creek, trackage is washed away. You can find these photos in Klinger's Clear Creek book, CRM Annual 10, the C&S equipment pictorials (VIII and IX), Ferrell C&Sng, DSP&P Pictorial Supplement, Diggerness V3 and of course DPL's Otto Perry collection.
When exactly was the washout? I know the area around the depot was intact in July 1932 when two photos of the Central City Opera House special train crowd were taken (found in CRM Annual 10, the C&S equipment pictorial VI, and Ferrell's C&Sng). I do know there were bad floods in July 1933, March 1935 and August 1935, per the newspapers but no damage specifics are given. I have found no reports of a flood in 1936 or 1937, at least nothing devastating. Photos in this time are rare.
And then starting mid-1937 the railfans show up and their photos until 1940 show the devastation. The valuation photos in the Colorado Central book (pp 179-181) show none of the destruction, just an intact or rebuilt scene suggesting repair work underway or planned. Was the flume repaired in 1939, only to almost immediately wash out again? Or are we seeing repairs after the 1933 or 1935 floods? I have no idea. Note that the ore dock is in place in the upper photo on page 179--when was that built?
Then I wonder: Are the dates given in the railfan photo captions correct? That would be a pretty extensive issue in figuring all this out. This definitely is a fuzzy period, there is so little documentation but from what I do know things don't fit nicely enough, or are missing, to date the valuation pictures as 1939. I may well be wrong and the valuation photos are dated properly and something happened--repairs and disaster or misdated railfan images or...?
For now, without having access to the Greg Lepak collection photos, I lean to the flume blowout being before mid-1937 and not repaired. To that point I'll add the expense of doing so at that point in the line's history. Think about how bad finances were, the line's under constant attempt at abandonment, the expense of that work. As I type this I nervously expect to see someone pop up with the silver bullet. Maybe an AFE. I hope so!
A key could be the cars seen in the photos, on pages 178, 179 and 180. But this may not be conclusive. I don't know cars, so posting to see if they can be identified.
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Draft-Layout-Plans-Black-Hawk-C-S-Gilpin-Tram-tp20518p20545.html
Jim,
I'd be not so quick to say the photos are conclusive evidence the flume was rebuilt. Why? Something just doesn't feel right in the details of those valuation photos when compared to other photos of 1937-1940.
The problem is the flume washout created a distinct landscape that clearly shows in railfan photos dated from mid-1937 through 1940. These railfan photos clearly show bad devastation--the flume is blown out, the depot has its ramp bridges across the open creek, trackage is washed away. You can find these photos in Klinger's Clear Creek book, CRM Annual 10, the C&S equipment pictorials (VIII and IX), Ferrell C&Sng, DSP&P Pictorial Supplement, Diggerness V3 and of course DPL's Otto Perry collection.
When exactly was the washout? I know the area around the depot was intact in July 1932 when two photos of the Central City Opera House special train crowd were taken (found in CRM Annual 10, the C&S equipment pictorial VI, and Ferrell's C&Sng). I do know there were bad floods in July 1933, March 1935 and August 1935, per the newspapers but no damage specifics are given. I have found no reports of a flood in 1936 or 1937, at least nothing devastating. Photos in this time are rare.
And then starting mid-1937 the railfans show up and their photos until 1940 show the devastation. The valuation photos in the Colorado Central book (pp 179-181) show none of the destruction, just an intact or rebuilt scene suggesting repair work underway or planned. Was the flume repaired in 1939, only to almost immediately wash out again? Or are we seeing repairs after the 1933 or 1935 floods? I have no idea. Note that the ore dock is in place in the upper photo on page 179--when was that built?
Then I wonder: Are the dates given in the railfan photo captions correct? That would be a pretty extensive issue in figuring all this out. This definitely is a fuzzy period, there is so little documentation but from what I do know things don't fit nicely enough, or are missing, to date the valuation pictures as 1939. I may well be wrong and the valuation photos are dated properly and something happened--repairs and disaster or misdated railfan images or...?
For now, without having access to the Greg Lepak collection photos, I lean to the flume blowout being before mid-1937 and not repaired. To that point I'll add the expense of doing so at that point in the line's history. Think about how bad finances were, the line's under constant attempt at abandonment, the expense of that work. As I type this I nervously expect to see someone pop up with the silver bullet. Maybe an AFE. I hope so!
A key could be the cars seen in the photos, on pages 178, 179 and 180. But this may not be conclusive. I don't know cars, so posting to see if they can be identified.
Dave Eggleston
Seattle, WA
Seattle, WA
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