Re: Eight wheel Caboose on C&Sng?

Posted by Derrell Poole on
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Eight-wheel-Caboose-on-C-Sng-tp488p1913.html

Richard, we have spoken on the phone about the possibilities of the origin of the two round corner cars. At that time I had not reviewed my caboose files for many years and hopefully I told you this then. In my recent review I've become more in touch with what facts we do know as well as plausible (at least in my opinion) theory. At the time we spoke I thought it was possible the two cars came from a foreign road and I still think it is possible but much less likely than I had allowed.

It seems there is an assumption among historians that cupolas tend to identify leased or foreign cars on line - that the old South Park cars remained without lookouts until the C&S rebuilt them in the late 1900s decade.  We know there were at least 4 cabooses with lookouts in the late 1890's because we have photos of that many cars all together in the Como yards. With 4 cars in one place in a very full yard during a time when the railroad was on an upswing for business it begs the question - were there more than 4 cars with lookouts? In turn this begs - if the railroad did not build or rebuild Cabooses with lookouts where did all of these 4-wheeled cupolas come from?

Frankly I would not be a bit surprised - as unlikely as it seems - to discover that some of the waycars built for the DSP&P in 1883 and 1884 were not new with cupolas - lack of photo evidence not withstanding.

But it seems more likely that in the early to mid 1890s several of the surviving car were rebuilt with cupolas. And we don't know if some of these may have been technically "destroyed" and rebuilt from the frame up. What could happen to a car in a case like that? Round corners maybe? Maybe a master car builder having a creative moment? (It happened upon occasion.) I believe we can make this assumption; two cars that almost certainly originally came from separate builds that have so much in common almost had to have been rebuilt as a pair at some point. Note that two more cars numbered between 1507 and 1514 also appear to constitute a similarity pair; 1511/308/1006 and 1513/ 309/1007.

As I've pointed out before the inventory of tools and materials in the cabooses as of 31 Dec. 1894 included both 1507 and 1514 (1005 & 1008). They were marked DL&G as opposed to 1601 also listed, which was a U&N caboose. The DL&G cars did not come from the U&N, being the Property of the DL&G. The U&N was not selling their NG equipment prior to 1896 (according to Hol Wagner's findings - yes he has replied to my queries). So the only other place they may have come from - that we know of  - was the Kansas Central. But according to Ron Rudnick's finding a only single caboose was sold in Oct. 1895 - nearly a year after the inventory. So? Where did these two cars come from?

Perhaps two cars were purchased in the interim between 1895 and 1898 and replaced the old 1507 and 1514. It's possible. Therefore I cannot rule out that the cars were foreigners. But until some definitive evidence comes to light - principally a Document of some sort - my regard to this notion is supplanted in preference to a DL&G rebuild.

The folio sheets were developed early in the C&S - the drawing suggest pre-rebuilt configurations. But they were expanded as new cars were added and of course updated as numbers were reassigned.  I think these are the reasons we don't have issue dates.

BTW I am very grateful that you and your brother are restoring 1008 and to those restoring 1006 equal gratitude! Very generous to our heritage!