Re: Mystery DL&G outfit car

Posted by Jim Courtney on Jul 17, 2023; 7:29am
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Mystery-DL-G-outfit-car-tp18906p18948.html

Hey Todd,

I agree, Mr. Tovey's outfit car can't be a D&RG B&S 24-footer. The "porch" is a red herring.

From D&RG standard plans the B&S cars had a body length of 24', total length of 26' over the end sills. That leaves a 1 foot deep exposed end sill. Dave's photo shows a porch of probably 2 feet of depth. I do think that the exposed "porch" is integral to the cars underframe, that is both longitudinal and end sills are exposed. Why else would there be an lower brake staff bracket hanging off the bottom of the end of the "porch". I can see the car body being set on the ground somewhere in Boulder Canon, then a 2 foot or so section of the car body framing and sheathing removed, new end constructed, but the sills retained as the framing for a 2-foot deep platform at that end.

I agree, the proportions of the car suggest that it is standard gauge in origin. On another thread (http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Non-Revenue-Service-Cars-td14179.html) we discussed C&S outfit car 052:




Both 052 and sister 051 first show up on the C&S rosters in 1909. The consensus was that the two cars were originally standard gauge cars, perhaps originally small UPD&G standard gauge cars like this:




The problem with Dave's outfit car is that it is lettered for the DL&G. The DL&G never owned any standard gauge cars. If Dave's 03005 were lettered with a UPD&G subscript, it would all make sense.

But wait, there's more!!

In the same thread, Ken Martin posted an 1899 renumber sheet of early C&S outfit cars:




The list proves that outfit cars 051-054 were originally standard gauge outfit cars, converted to narrow gauge use later in the first decade. But further down, we find C&S outfit cars that were always narrow gauge, including C&S outfits 058-061. Their original, pre-C&S numbers were 03003, 03016, 03017 and 03165!

So. if Dave's 03005 was a sister of these outfit cars, what were their pre-conversion car numbers and car types? This gets a bit complicated. In the addendum of NG Pictorial VIII, Derrell Poole lists C&S outfit car 060 as originally numbered DL&G box car 24658, based on a May, 1900 photo, though I can't follow his explanation. (Page 213, table of Non-Revenue Service Cars.)

If true, then DL&G outfit 03017 was originally DL&G boxcar 24658. And Ron Rudnick, in his UPD&G/DL&G guide, lists DL&G boxcar 24658 as one of series 24600-25489, a Kansas Central, 27 foot, UP built boxcar. If a few feet were cut off one end for a "porch/platform" the resulting 24-25 foot body would fit into Dave's calculated length by board count.

Further down on Ken's renumber list are C&S outfits 062-064. Their pre-C&S numbers were just box car numbers with a 0 prefix. DL&G boxcars 24083-24275 were Litchfield 26 foot cars.

Based on this, admittedly limited and convoluted evidence, it would appear that DL&G 03005 was always a narrow gauge car. We can't say what the original car number, length or builder was.  If one end had been amputated a bit, it would have changed the proportions, perhaps suggesting a standard gauge car of origin.

I hate puzzles with pieces missing like this!