Mystery DL&G outfit car
Posted by Dave Eggleston on Jul 14, 2023; 10:01pm
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Mystery-DL-G-outfit-car-tp18906.html
This Bass photo in the UC Boulder JB Sturtevant collection is a bit of a mystery I’m hoping someone can shed some light on.
https://cudl.colorado.edu/luna/servlet/detail/CUB~26~26~67~294175?sort=mediafileName%2Ctitle%2Cdate_created%2Cname_part&qvq=sort:mediafileName%2Ctitle%2Cdate_created%2Cname_part;lc:CUB~26~26&mi=66&trs=1115
What caught my eye was what's being hauled: A grounded outfit car. But what is it and from where?
A newspaper search was fruitful: I can date the photo to Dec 26, 1895, from articles in the Boulder Daily Camera on Dec 24 and 26, 1895:
Tovey is pulling “relics” from Four Mile Canyon 18 months after the flood had destroyed the GSL&P. But from which of the two locations? I’ve come across about 100 photos of the line, a handful of which show grounded boxcars at Sunset and Salina.
The one at Salina (Gold Hill) was presumably used as the depot, given the importance of the place, and is best seen in a photo taken just after the 1894 flood. It may suggest a flatcar with body added, with a sliding window in one end, a side window and a modified side door and possibly vertical battens on the end.
Salina boxcar
Not a match with 03005 but the real clincher is this car is in a handful of photos taken after 1898: It isn’t Tovey’s car.
Sunset accumulated four grounded boxcars after the depot burned down on July 4, 1893. They were UP 24268, UP 24152, CC 026552 and an unidentified car that may have been a 24’ 1880 CCRR car. None of these resemble 03005 and later photos show all survived into the C&NW era. None of them is Tovey’s car.
So I have no idea where Tovey pulled the car from.
On to the next mystery: What is this car? The lettering is painted over blocked-out lettering with a tiny “DL&G” under the side number. The new lettering was most likely applied circa 1890-92 by the DL&G likely arrived on the GSL&P around 1892-93.
A few general thoughts on freight cars used on the GSL&P. First, there weren’t many freight cars and none were lettered for the home line and they included some outfit-style cars (not the cabooses 01542 and 026552 but at least one other converted boxcar). Second, photos and ORER records suggest cars weren’t relettered or renumbered once they arrived on the GSL&P, even when those things happened elsewhere on the UP system. Third, it seems the freight cars weren’t rotated off the line after they arrived, unlike engines and passenger cars. Once there, freight cars stayed. Fourth, cars came initially from the CC but over the years additions came from across the UP system: the DSP&P, the DL&G, the UPD&G, the U&N and the KC.
So, back to the mystery. The number, 03005, is outside the range assigned in 1885 by the UP for outfit or work cars: 02500–02999. Since things change and rosters expand, I checked ORER records from 1890 to 1895 for the UP System as well as the 1889 UP Roster of locos, plows, and equipment and found all listed cars within the expected range. What the heck? Presumably there were cars outside the official numbering range that didn’t get seen or were ignored by the Boston clerks? I don’t have anything to confirm this. Why this number? I don’t know. The closest candidate freight car number was DSP&P 3005, a flatcar. Was this converted to outfit service with a body attached and a "0" appended to its number?
Finally, a look at physical details shows a body heavily modified but with parts of a wood side ladder and some trim. I don’t know if the ladder is important or not in narrowing this down and welcome thoughts on that. The flat-bottomed end fascia, if original, would possibly indicate a South Park 1878 Barney & Smith boxcar or inherited KC and U&N Ohio Falls boxcar. The car appears to be 79 veritcal boards long, width which, if considered 3.5” boards, it’s a hair over 23’, if 4” boards it’s about 26’. According to the 1889 UP Locomotives, Plows and Flangers list, the KC boxcars at that time were 22’, 24’ and 27’. The U&N boxcars were 24’.
So, that’s as far as I can go at the moment. Clearly an outfit boxcar or shed oddly numbered 03005 on the ground somewhere in Four Mile Canyon, placed likely after arriving (on its own trucks?) around 1892/93. It came from the DL&G but may originally have been from the KC or U&N. One detail suggests a B&S or Ohio Falls car. Or something else entirely? Some line's caboose or rudimentary passenger car? What am I missing? I welcome any thoughts.
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Mystery-DL-G-outfit-car-tp18906.html
This Bass photo in the UC Boulder JB Sturtevant collection is a bit of a mystery I’m hoping someone can shed some light on.
https://cudl.colorado.edu/luna/servlet/detail/CUB~26~26~67~294175?sort=mediafileName%2Ctitle%2Cdate_created%2Cname_part&qvq=sort:mediafileName%2Ctitle%2Cdate_created%2Cname_part;lc:CUB~26~26&mi=66&trs=1115
What caught my eye was what's being hauled: A grounded outfit car. But what is it and from where?
A newspaper search was fruitful: I can date the photo to Dec 26, 1895, from articles in the Boulder Daily Camera on Dec 24 and 26, 1895:
Tovey is pulling “relics” from Four Mile Canyon 18 months after the flood had destroyed the GSL&P. But from which of the two locations? I’ve come across about 100 photos of the line, a handful of which show grounded boxcars at Sunset and Salina.
The one at Salina (Gold Hill) was presumably used as the depot, given the importance of the place, and is best seen in a photo taken just after the 1894 flood. It may suggest a flatcar with body added, with a sliding window in one end, a side window and a modified side door and possibly vertical battens on the end.
Salina boxcar
Not a match with 03005 but the real clincher is this car is in a handful of photos taken after 1898: It isn’t Tovey’s car.
Sunset accumulated four grounded boxcars after the depot burned down on July 4, 1893. They were UP 24268, UP 24152, CC 026552 and an unidentified car that may have been a 24’ 1880 CCRR car. None of these resemble 03005 and later photos show all survived into the C&NW era. None of them is Tovey’s car.
So I have no idea where Tovey pulled the car from.
On to the next mystery: What is this car? The lettering is painted over blocked-out lettering with a tiny “DL&G” under the side number. The new lettering was most likely applied circa 1890-92 by the DL&G likely arrived on the GSL&P around 1892-93.
A few general thoughts on freight cars used on the GSL&P. First, there weren’t many freight cars and none were lettered for the home line and they included some outfit-style cars (not the cabooses 01542 and 026552 but at least one other converted boxcar). Second, photos and ORER records suggest cars weren’t relettered or renumbered once they arrived on the GSL&P, even when those things happened elsewhere on the UP system. Third, it seems the freight cars weren’t rotated off the line after they arrived, unlike engines and passenger cars. Once there, freight cars stayed. Fourth, cars came initially from the CC but over the years additions came from across the UP system: the DSP&P, the DL&G, the UPD&G, the U&N and the KC.
So, back to the mystery. The number, 03005, is outside the range assigned in 1885 by the UP for outfit or work cars: 02500–02999. Since things change and rosters expand, I checked ORER records from 1890 to 1895 for the UP System as well as the 1889 UP Roster of locos, plows, and equipment and found all listed cars within the expected range. What the heck? Presumably there were cars outside the official numbering range that didn’t get seen or were ignored by the Boston clerks? I don’t have anything to confirm this. Why this number? I don’t know. The closest candidate freight car number was DSP&P 3005, a flatcar. Was this converted to outfit service with a body attached and a "0" appended to its number?
Finally, a look at physical details shows a body heavily modified but with parts of a wood side ladder and some trim. I don’t know if the ladder is important or not in narrowing this down and welcome thoughts on that. The flat-bottomed end fascia, if original, would possibly indicate a South Park 1878 Barney & Smith boxcar or inherited KC and U&N Ohio Falls boxcar. The car appears to be 79 veritcal boards long, width which, if considered 3.5” boards, it’s a hair over 23’, if 4” boards it’s about 26’. According to the 1889 UP Locomotives, Plows and Flangers list, the KC boxcars at that time were 22’, 24’ and 27’. The U&N boxcars were 24’.
So, that’s as far as I can go at the moment. Clearly an outfit boxcar or shed oddly numbered 03005 on the ground somewhere in Four Mile Canyon, placed likely after arriving (on its own trucks?) around 1892/93. It came from the DL&G but may originally have been from the KC or U&N. One detail suggests a B&S or Ohio Falls car. Or something else entirely? Some line's caboose or rudimentary passenger car? What am I missing? I welcome any thoughts.
Dave Eggleston
Seattle, WA
Seattle, WA
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