Need info on early C&S inherited coal cars -- how were they numbered??
Posted by Jim Courtney on
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Need-info-on-early-C-S-inherited-coal-cars-how-were-they-numbered-tp16697.html
Last spring, when Michael York first announced his intentions of designing a 3-D print of the UP-style 14 ton ("type-C") freight car truck, I was inspired to pull out my stash of Cimarron Works 27' coal car kits. With little to do during the Covid lockdown, I thought I would build up some cars for Michael's new trucks to carry. I have three cars nearly complete, about ready for paint and lettering, but I'm not sure how the cars were numbered on the then new C&S of 1901.
When the C&S emerged from the various receiverships in 1899, it inherited a variety of 14-20 year old coal cars, of various lengths and capacities. The company also took possession of 246 near brand new 30-foot, 3 and 4-board coal cars of 25 ton capacity, from 3 different orders from St Charles in 1897 and 1898. The new management's numbering scheme assigned all narrow gauge coal cars to the 4000s. Oddly, the new St Charles cars were assigned the lowest numbers 4000-4245. The Trumbull people obviously had plans for a lot more modern 30-foot coal cars, as numbers 4246 to 4599 were held vacant for new acquisitions in the 1902, 1908 and 1910 coal car building programs. All the inherited coal cars from the predecessor roads were assigned numbers in the block 4600-4999.
But how were they numbered? There a multiple types of cars that I would like to build:
Colorado Central / UPD&G 24 foot, 10-12 ton coal cars: Per Ron Rudnick's book, the CC acquired some 47 to 57 coal cars between 1878 and 1880. These cars were 24 feet long and had 3-board sides with only 5 side stakes. Some were still around after the C&S reorganization of 1899: The Parlin photo of the double header of 1900, shows one of these cars behind the tender of C&S 66:
Unfortunately, the number is out of frame. Low 4600s ??
Edit: The reproduction of this photo in Mineral Belt 2 isn't as severely cropped, the car number is visible but blurry. with my surgical loops I think the number is 4605, at least that's my best guess.
South Park/DL&G Litchfield 26 foot, 12 ton coal cars: Litchfield built at least 68 coal cars for the DSP&P in 1879-1880, and some of the 200 identical flat cars were likely converted to coal cars as well. The cars had 10" side sills with a gentle taper at the ends, and had 8 stake pockets / stakes per side. They rode on 12 ton Litchfield (type-A trucks). I have found one photo of such a car on the early C&S, in the Walsh Smelter photo at Kokomo, c.1901:
The car number is 4624 with badly beat up 2 board sides. The capacity is listed as 12 tons, but the car seems to be riding on UP style 14 ton trucks, perhaps a TOTC upgrade??
DSP&P/DL&G 27 foot, UP built, 14 ton coal cars: The UP Omaha shops built a total of about 175 coal cars in two batches. The 1882 cars had 12 inch tapered side sills with 24' tall 3 board sides, originally DSP&P 300 series. The 1883 cars had 10 inch straight side sills, with 36", 3-board sides, originally DSP&P high 400 series and 1300-1343. Both types of cars rode on Michael's 14 ton "type-C" trucks.
I'm not sure how many were still around on the new C&S, but a couple of 1882 cars were photographed as late as 1906:
The cars both have the 12" tapered side sills but have different box sides. Car 4725 (left) has a two board side, while the (presumed) 4703 has the original three board sides, as seen in early DSP&P photos c.1884. Both cars seem to have been re-lettered over new paint jobs, as no "paint mask" patches are visible.
A car from the 1883 batch of of 27 foot coal cars is our friend from Idaho Springs, number 4637:
Another oddity, while the 1882 27-footers seem to be numbered in the 4700s, the 1883 cars are back in the 4600s. Note the fresh paint patches on the side between the center stakes and on parts of the side sills, obliterating the old UP/DL&G lettering with new lettering applied.
The DSP&P/DL&G Peninsular 30-foot, 20 ton coal cars: In 1884, the DSP&P received 100 heavier coal cars from Peninsular, along with 100 each 30-foot box and flat cars. These cars had tapered side sills and rode on the 20-ton "type B" trucks. All of these cars ended up with numbers in the 4800-4900 series, like these:
_______________________________________________
So that's all the info I have on these coal cars on the early C&S. Both Ron Rudnick's book and Ferrell's The South Park Line have early DSP&P rosters for before-and-after the UP 1885 renumbering. Ferrell's book has DL&G rosters from 1891 and 1894. The earliest C&S roster that I've seen is the one compiled by John Maxwell in the Pictorial Supplement . . . from C&S records from about 1912. None of these cars survived by then, except some of the Peninsular 30-foot coal cars, which didn't seem to serve past the 1916 USSA deadline.
So do any of you historians out there know of C&S rosters c.1900, that might tell me how these various classes of coal cars were numbered and how many there were in service?? Perhaps Official Guides of the period might allow one to infer car numbers by car length and capacity.
And if anyone has any C&S era photos of these coal cars, please post them!!
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Need-info-on-early-C-S-inherited-coal-cars-how-were-they-numbered-tp16697.html
Last spring, when Michael York first announced his intentions of designing a 3-D print of the UP-style 14 ton ("type-C") freight car truck, I was inspired to pull out my stash of Cimarron Works 27' coal car kits. With little to do during the Covid lockdown, I thought I would build up some cars for Michael's new trucks to carry. I have three cars nearly complete, about ready for paint and lettering, but I'm not sure how the cars were numbered on the then new C&S of 1901.
When the C&S emerged from the various receiverships in 1899, it inherited a variety of 14-20 year old coal cars, of various lengths and capacities. The company also took possession of 246 near brand new 30-foot, 3 and 4-board coal cars of 25 ton capacity, from 3 different orders from St Charles in 1897 and 1898. The new management's numbering scheme assigned all narrow gauge coal cars to the 4000s. Oddly, the new St Charles cars were assigned the lowest numbers 4000-4245. The Trumbull people obviously had plans for a lot more modern 30-foot coal cars, as numbers 4246 to 4599 were held vacant for new acquisitions in the 1902, 1908 and 1910 coal car building programs. All the inherited coal cars from the predecessor roads were assigned numbers in the block 4600-4999.
But how were they numbered? There a multiple types of cars that I would like to build:
Colorado Central / UPD&G 24 foot, 10-12 ton coal cars: Per Ron Rudnick's book, the CC acquired some 47 to 57 coal cars between 1878 and 1880. These cars were 24 feet long and had 3-board sides with only 5 side stakes. Some were still around after the C&S reorganization of 1899: The Parlin photo of the double header of 1900, shows one of these cars behind the tender of C&S 66:
Unfortunately, the number is out of frame. Low 4600s ??
Edit: The reproduction of this photo in Mineral Belt 2 isn't as severely cropped, the car number is visible but blurry. with my surgical loops I think the number is 4605, at least that's my best guess.
South Park/DL&G Litchfield 26 foot, 12 ton coal cars: Litchfield built at least 68 coal cars for the DSP&P in 1879-1880, and some of the 200 identical flat cars were likely converted to coal cars as well. The cars had 10" side sills with a gentle taper at the ends, and had 8 stake pockets / stakes per side. They rode on 12 ton Litchfield (type-A trucks). I have found one photo of such a car on the early C&S, in the Walsh Smelter photo at Kokomo, c.1901:
The car number is 4624 with badly beat up 2 board sides. The capacity is listed as 12 tons, but the car seems to be riding on UP style 14 ton trucks, perhaps a TOTC upgrade??
DSP&P/DL&G 27 foot, UP built, 14 ton coal cars: The UP Omaha shops built a total of about 175 coal cars in two batches. The 1882 cars had 12 inch tapered side sills with 24' tall 3 board sides, originally DSP&P 300 series. The 1883 cars had 10 inch straight side sills, with 36", 3-board sides, originally DSP&P high 400 series and 1300-1343. Both types of cars rode on Michael's 14 ton "type-C" trucks.
I'm not sure how many were still around on the new C&S, but a couple of 1882 cars were photographed as late as 1906:
The cars both have the 12" tapered side sills but have different box sides. Car 4725 (left) has a two board side, while the (presumed) 4703 has the original three board sides, as seen in early DSP&P photos c.1884. Both cars seem to have been re-lettered over new paint jobs, as no "paint mask" patches are visible.
A car from the 1883 batch of of 27 foot coal cars is our friend from Idaho Springs, number 4637:
Another oddity, while the 1882 27-footers seem to be numbered in the 4700s, the 1883 cars are back in the 4600s. Note the fresh paint patches on the side between the center stakes and on parts of the side sills, obliterating the old UP/DL&G lettering with new lettering applied.
The DSP&P/DL&G Peninsular 30-foot, 20 ton coal cars: In 1884, the DSP&P received 100 heavier coal cars from Peninsular, along with 100 each 30-foot box and flat cars. These cars had tapered side sills and rode on the 20-ton "type B" trucks. All of these cars ended up with numbers in the 4800-4900 series, like these:
_______________________________________________
So that's all the info I have on these coal cars on the early C&S. Both Ron Rudnick's book and Ferrell's The South Park Line have early DSP&P rosters for before-and-after the UP 1885 renumbering. Ferrell's book has DL&G rosters from 1891 and 1894. The earliest C&S roster that I've seen is the one compiled by John Maxwell in the Pictorial Supplement . . . from C&S records from about 1912. None of these cars survived by then, except some of the Peninsular 30-foot coal cars, which didn't seem to serve past the 1916 USSA deadline.
So do any of you historians out there know of C&S rosters c.1900, that might tell me how these various classes of coal cars were numbered and how many there were in service?? Perhaps Official Guides of the period might allow one to infer car numbers by car length and capacity.
And if anyone has any C&S era photos of these coal cars, please post them!!
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
Poulsbo, WA
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