C&S Outside Metal Roofs -- Painting and Weathering Models

Posted by Jim Courtney on Jun 13, 2020; 7:13pm
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/C-S-Outside-Metal-Roofs-Painting-and-Weathering-Models-tp15730.html

I felt badly about how I stepped on Keith's Ingolsby dump car thread with my thoughts on painting C&S metal roofs on models. I resolved to open a new thread to discuss this subject, and unclutter Keith's ongoing project. Keith had the same thoughts this morning.

So here goes:

Keith was describing his testing of the use of chipping fluid for weathering his car. I responded:

Interesting, a "modern" variation of the old rubber cement mask and peel technique for simulating old flaking paint.

I agree, there's a lot to learn from the military model builders using different techniques than the traditional model railroad weathering concepts. We tend to either build up thin layers of paint, then scratch it off in random ways or build up colors on top of colors with washes, air brushing and powdered pigments.

My friend Dale Kreutzer is a master of the paint and scratch technique popularized by the old Gazette articles. I'm always too heavy handed with the fiber glass eraser, get through too many layers of paint, or worse, down into grooves of scribed styrene, exposing white plastic. And with washes, I tend to get unexpected color shifts of the base coat. Same with air brush weathering, I'm just too heavy handed, and things look too exaggerated, a caricature.

I've been experimenting with Mark Evans technique of using Prismacolor water color pencils, over base coats of paint. I seem to have better control. Speaking of Murphy roofs, I have found that using Prismacolor "bright silver" pencil over freight car red paint yields a medium grey, galvanized metal look. I'll post some photos tomorrow.

And take care with your painted metal Murphy roofs. For decades, I labored under the misconception that the C&S metal roofs on the phase 2 and 3 house cars were left unpainted, bare galvanized metal. And that roof walks were never painted.

Then I found this photo in one of Richard Dorman's RGS books:



This is the roof of an ex-C&S SUF stock car in a RGS stock train in the late 1940's. Not only is the roof still painted but very little of the galvanized metal is showing under the wear of the paint. The wooden running boards are weathered to a grey driftwood color, but there is a hint of freight car red on one of the boards to the left. The locomotive cinders, blown up against the narrow ribs is a nice detail, not sure how to duplicate it.

It may be more appropriate to suggest fading of the paint on the metal roof, by direct exposure of the high altitude Colorado sun.




The roof doesn't appear to be weathered to bare metal, but a much faded shade of the body color. Same with the metal corner irons and side stake brackets. How would you artist types simulate this??


This morning, Keith replied:

Jim, I too had spied those color photos in Dorman's books taken from the caboose cupola.

I recall Harry Brunk shared a similar pic of a C&S train headed towards Fremont Pass from Leadville with similar cinders clinging to the Murphy roof ribs. Harry's  sharp eyes had picked out the roof hatches added to a couple box cars (Oh! gotta model a couple of those someday soon too!).

Since you have diverted the conversation, maybe we should start a new thread? This brings up three points of interest:

1. The cinders, obviously.
2. Roof walks, paint or no paint?
3. Weathering Murphy roofs.

You photo shows the cinders behind the ribs. Being that we modelers have to glue the cinders down, it will be inevitable that the car will move in a train with the cinders to the front. Oops! But, if you want to model this feature, some fine coal, ballast or cinders should do in a drop of cement or thinned ballast cement on the car roof. I might apply with a toothpick and then sprinkle the cinder material in. It probably wouldn't hurt to work over the cinder material with a mortar and pestle or food processor to make it extra fine. I will probably do this someday to a few cars. We shall see.

Earl Knoob has long maintained that roof walks were not painted because the paint would make them slippery with early morning dew or in any moisture. God knows it was tough enough for the brakie to trot across the cars without a slipping hazard. I believe they were painted, at least in the early days, because these are so darned exposed that the wood will weather extra fast without some sort of treatment. Nevertheless, I have bowed to Earl and others and started to paint my roofwalks to emulate the color of weathered wood, dusting the painted roof walks with a coat of sand or grey followed by a black or brown wash. Recall that the image in the photo above is in the late 40s/ early 50s at the twilight of the RGS; same goes for most of the C&S pics towards the end. The cars were not receiving as much care as they had earlier.

To my thinking the Murphy roofs are essentially a standing seam roof system with either 11 or 13 ribs. You can see that the metal parts take the color differently than the wood. My guess is that the metal pans are galvanized. On the cupola pic there are some light spots. They look like sand, but I cannot imagine that is what it is. Cinders can be very abrasive, not to mention acidic. I would not be surprised if wind caused the cinders to abraid the metal pans creating areas of exposed galvanized metal. These would appear in colors ranging from dull silver to grey and might have areas of rust around the edges. I think that is what the light spots are we are seeing in the image. For years, I have been giving my Murphy roofs a coat of Testor's silver enamel (get some while it lasts!) as a primer, undercoat, then using the rubber cement or other devices to provide some weathering. With the chipping fluid, maybe this becomes a richer process with areas of silver and a gull grey followed by the chipping fluid, some scratching and then a small drop of rust wash which should gather towards the edge of the spot.

Since the conversation has strayed this far, what do you all think of the model paint world these days? Very frustrating, eh? Dad was a Floquil man, never Scale Coat, so that is how I grew up. I had shifted to the Floquil acrylics when they got bought by Testors and discontinued. I have bought my share of Gloss Cote and Dull Cote, and had taken to having a can of Gull Grey, Flat Black and Silver on hand for small projects. Now Testors is gone. I have standardized on Vallejo acrylics and am generally happy with these, though I am still getting used to which colors to use and how they mix. Jim is a fan of the Tamiya primer in a rattle can, and I may have to investigate the Tamiya rattle can offerings the next time I visit Hobby Town to see if I can replicate the Testors products. And...since I have been watching all these military model videos I am getting really curious about MIG and AK products....


So, lets pick up this conversation in a more focused format.  It is a pertinent subject, as I have used the Covid-19 shutdown in WA state to refurbish and repaint some of my old Sn3 C&S models for my 1924 C&Sn3 roster . . .

I have deleted my wordy thoughts from Keith's Ingolsby thread . . . perhaps Keith can do the same with his morning post to clean things up on that thread.