Re: Idaho Springs Tank

Posted by Chris Walker on
URL: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Idaho-Springs-Tank-tp1316p1440.html

John Schapekahm wrote

YOU hang on a minute Chris!  I never suggested you were “here to tear down Harry Brunk.” Yikes!!! Thin skin much ?!?
Let’s go back and start over.
As a offhand comment to Keith, who posted the picture at the top of the thread for me, I made an OFFHAND comment that “the first picture Chris posted … shows the first IS tank, east of town, which succumbed to the ever-expanding waste rock pile of the Newhouse (Argo) Tunnel.”
For that I got your “Ahhh, holdon there, not quite succumbed to the pile, as the houses seen in the later McCure pic.” OK, I was willing for the good and the welfare to just let that jibe go, but I guess you weren’t.
You know Chris, too bad you don’t scour words for their meaning like you do your pictures for details, or you’d have found the word “succumb” does not mean “to bury,” but means rather “to SUBMIT to an overpowering force.” [emphasis added]
So it may well have been with the Newhouse (Argo) waste rock pile. As it crept ever closer, it is entirely reasonable to expect seeing the C&S and the Newhouse (Argo) people begin negotiations for the sale of the C&S tank property to Newhouse (Argo) in anticipation of Newhouse (Argo) eventually (soon) needing that land to accommodate waste rock pile creep. Heck, if the C&S negotiators were any good, they would have insisted on Newhouse (Argo) standing the expense of erecting a new tank west of town (complete with fluted cast iron support thrown in!!!) as part and parcel of the bargain. Newhouse (Argo) might also have bought up the surrounding neighborhood and rented the houses out until the day it actually needed to bury them (which I guess never happened). Thinking ahead in anticipation of a need rather than falling into last minute panic buying would have been the hallmark of a good business strategy.
So, anyway, off you went Chris, all Don Quixote like, jousting after windmills, postulating failed Virginia Canyon drainage (one hesitates to actually say “creek”) waters as the reason the tank had to be moved (as if C&S couldn’t have done a 90˚ pirouette and stuck its straw into Clear Creek instead?). In support of your contention, you suggest, “mining up Virginia Canyon increased and maybe took the water supply?  Seems logical to draw that conclusion after reviewing the following growth of the Newhouse/Argo.”  Arrggghhhh!!! I don’t think it is logical at all to conclude, “mining up Virginia Canyon increased and maybe took the water supply.” Mines are net EXPORTERS of water, not importers!!!
Case directly in point = the very purpose of the Newhouse (Argo) was to bore a tunnel from Idaho Springs to Central City and thereby (1) DRAIN water from the rich-but-flooded mines and (2) provide for economical transportation of the gold-bearing ore. Segue. How did the Newhouse (Argo) Tunnel meet its demise? The Kansas Shaft up between Russell Gulch and Nevadaville had quit pumping water in anticipation of the Argo crew finding it and draining it from below. Indeed, the whole Nevadaville district was flooded with water to a depth of twelve hundred feet. Many of the flooded mines above the Argo leaked into the tunnel. On January 19, 1943, a crew of four miners set off the last charge of the day. When the charges went off, they released water pressure exceeding five hundred pounds per square inch. Water blasted out the entire twelve-foot diameter of the portal for several hours. Argo eventually recovered the bodies of four miners and buried them in the Idaho Springs cemetery. The Argo Tunnel never reopened.
Ugghhh!!! Sorry for the rant, but I just don’t seeing the historical record muddied up with all manner of idle and unrepentant speculation, just for bloviation's sake (my own included).

Actually I still don't see your arguement, the first W.T. was there on the floodplain of the Clear Creek, the Colorado Central raising an embankment across the meander.  Maybe as another thought not yet put forward, the Clear Creek became angry and washed it out or undermined it?

EDIT: The propensity for Cloudburst flooding in the region of Fall River/Idaho Springs was known at the time, and is documented in my thread.
Here: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.254.s1.nabble.com/Castle-Eyrie-An-Oddity-in-Idaho-Springs-tp4436p18265.html


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/3356/rv/singleitem

This area of land was filled in and houses built upon it, as I have shown above in the  DPL X-2278 picture taken from opposite the 2nd Tank location.   The Newhouse Tunnel was started in 1893, in ernest by 1895 and completed by 1904.   After that the Mill was built and all the waste rock was dumped along the undeveloped Eastern side of the Tunnel.

Looking back at I.S. in pre-Newhouse times with the 1st Tank visible.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/41181/rv/singleitem

In this enlargement there is no 1st Tank visible, the Wastedump appears to have reached its extent and the Argo Mill has yet to be constructed.


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/67650/rv/singleitem

Your supposition that the Argo bought off the C&S to move a Tank alongside the Railroad to possibly bury with a Wastedump when they would have just cribbed past it seems odd at the least, and I can't read that into Harry Brunk's quote above.   That's a major number of houses to buy up and bury "should the need arise" as you infer.  Not only that but the Tank location was 500ft past 23rdAve which is 250ft West of the Portal.  Twice as much distance further in addition  to what has already been dumped and after completion of the Tunnel.


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42271/rv/singleitem

And I wish to add that the Big5 Tunnel at the far Western end of I.S. didn't buy up all the surrounding houses but dumped the wasterock on the oppositeside of the valley all along the Clear Creek halfway to the confluence of Chicago Cr.  I pointed out the Pumphouse in the shadow of the first Tank in my earlier post.  Todd Fergusson did offer speculation, I saw no need to repeat his thoughts hence my speculation on the Virginia canyon mining, they would have needed water for their boilers until electricity arrived and I don't think for any minute the Mine drainage that you refer to would be suitable for Loco Boilers.  As for the inclusion of the Argo flooding mishap you brought to the table in counter of my supposition, that is some 35-40 years after the relocating of the tank.


EDIT: the Water Supply issues.....


Construction of New Mills upstream(as per Todd Fergusson initial thoughts)

Anderson Mill 4/1897 Jackson Mill 6/1897 Smith Mill 7/1897 + Newton Mill .....Mattie Mill(Chicago Cr.)


In summary I reckon that Harry got this notion from his contact in Idaho Springs of a rumour that the Argo was going to bury that housing, that was probably no more than gossip from some housewife who lived in the shadow of the overpowering dump with the fear that it would soon envelope her.  How's that for thinking?  It's a pity we weren't sitting around the kitchen table together and then you would hear the emphasis and tone of my voice.  I think I've put up considerable visual clues to counter this, if you wish to provide same in support then be my guest, I've said my bit.

EDIT: Putting paid to the notion the the Newhouse Tunnel was going to buy up the Houses to the West. note: Sunnyside was the area Nth of the tracks and East of the Virginia Canyon.